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  1. #41
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape View Post
    Where in the heck did you get the idea that" Everything on this planet has a "right" to reproduce"?

    It defies basic laws of nature

    The most basic law of nature is that every living thing struggles to reproduce, in the face of sometimes overwhelming competition, outside and within the species. That struggle, is often just that, a constant battle to survive stay alive and pass on one's genes. In fact, the one's that pass on their genes are THE WINNERS. Winners who earned the right to breed. It was not bestowed apoun them, socialist style, as a right, but was in fact, a reward.

    Human rights are an invention of civilization, by minds far far removed from their natural states, after breeding many many generations in captivity(civilization).

    Trapped in the woods, looking at trees, unable to see the forest
    Do you truly not realize that society, cooperation and protection of the weak are just as much part, if not more so, of humans' survival and reproduction strategy as pure competition? That it's just as natural to defend another's ability to reproduce, because they may share genes with you, and through their reproduction, your genes gain at least a partial victory?

    Because honestly, if you don't, you weren't paying attention in human genetics class.

  2. #42
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    marmalade.sunrise - Ummm...there's no scientific proof that these people are GENETICALLY inferior or that their DNA is any less valuable than yours or mine. You are basing your theory of forced sterilization on social conditions, not biology, so stop acting like you know so much about natural selection
    .

    You are using a logical fallacy to infer that I was stating that Haitians are genetically inferior.However, I was in fact discussing with another forum member, broad laws of nature. You are using a weasel tactic that uses a leap of logic so as to turn the argument into a personal conflict.

    Try and refrain from attacking the messanger, try and have a rational discussion as an adult does

    Can ya do that?

    BTW starting any post with Ummm, usually is an indication the post will not be an in depth thinking one, ya might wanna lose that habit


    Should these people be educated about reproduction and given access to birth control? Yes, most definitely. But to mass sterilize a group of people is not only reducing them to farm animals, but even to prove your own ignorance about genetic factors in race. You seem stuck back in the 1930's, and you're calling other people ignorant and narcissistic?

    Most of your points in the above post are non sequesters that results in a lack of logical pattern of thought, the end result some name calling.

    You use emotional references to try to create emotions within the discussion that allows for leaps of logic and personal subjective attacks. It would be nice to have a rational discussion on the topic without your feeler hissy fits, they add nothing to the conversation.


    Troll.
    Emotional, non rational, child

  3. #43
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    onemoretime - Do you truly not realize that society, cooperation and protection of the weak are just as much part, if not more so, of humans' survival and reproduction strategy as pure competition? That it's just as natural to defend another's ability to reproduce, because they may share genes with you, and through their reproduction, your genes gain at least a partial victory?

    The most basic law of nature is that every living thing struggles to reproduce, in the face of sometimes overwhelming competition, outside and within the species.

    What part of the above did you not understand?

    We are highly cooperative Apes and as such we defend those within our groups from outside dangers but we also compete with those within the group to have our particular DNA traits passed on.

    Where in my post did I indicate that those within a group should turn on the weaker within the group?

    Research logical fallacies, so as to appear more intellectually honest next post

    Because honestly, if you don't, you weren't paying attention in human genetics class.
    I spent many years working and living in nature and I payed attention. Whereas you sat on your ass in a classroom digesting cerebral puke and later puking it back out.

    Impressive

  4. #44
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Has anyone even noticed that the donate link is going through a "Temple" which is asking for 134 dollars donation for each bottle when the cost to the public is 99 dollars per bottle (The Lifesaver Bottle).
    I would hazard a guess that a charity will get a rather good discount on them, also this Temple dosn't state what percentages go to the charity. I could be wrong but i can't find all the info i'm looking for, just seems a bit suspect.
    OP please correct me if i am mistaken


    *I think the water system is genius and to be honest i don't give a hoot which organization is taking up the cause as long as they are not eating up the cash and ramming religion down peoples throats saying it's a gift from a/any particualar God/s because it's not it's from public donation
    Last edited by Betty Blue; 03-18-2010 at 06:57 PM. Reason: wanted to add more to bottom of post
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  5. #45
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape View Post
    The most basic law of nature is that every living thing struggles to reproduce, in the face of sometimes overwhelming competition, outside and within the species.

    What part of the above did you not understand?
    The part that has any basis in reality.

    GENES struggle to reproduce. That's it. Everything else consists of strategies those genes use to reproduce. Some of these are competitive, others cooperative. Learn some game theory before making wild, turn-of-the-last-century proclamations.

    We are highly cooperative Apes and as such we defend those within our groups from outside dangers but we also compete with those within the group to have our particular DNA traits passed on.
    Not always. The impulse is there, but it's frowned upon for good reason - you need the group to survive, period. Adultery is a gamble on short-term success that has very heavy long-term potential losses. Meanwhile, making sure your kin survives and reproduces goes far toward ensuring that the totality of your genes passes on to the next generation, with the costs spread out over time. It's a better strategy.

    Where in my post did I indicate that those within a group should turn on the weaker within the group?

    Research logical fallacies, so as to appear more intellectually honest next post
    Nowhere. Interesting that you interpreted my comment to imply that. Nice paranoid siege mentality you've got going on there.

    If you want a haughty narcissism contest, I'd suggest you don't. You won't win. Telling me to research logical fallacies, and then dropping an ad hominem in the same sentence? That's just pathetic.

    I spent many years working and living in nature and I payed attention. Whereas you sat on your ass in a classroom digesting cerebral puke and later puking it back out.
    *Yawn*

    You really are a lame-ass troll, you know. If I had to guess, you're an INTJ who's trying to do an ENTP impression, and failing miserably. It's OK - people had high hopes for New Coke too.

    Impressive
    Wait a sec, I've figured it out - it all makes sense now. You want sterilization so badly because it's the only way you'd ever get some on that island, or any landmass for that matter. Hate to tell ya, buddy - but you didn't think that one all the way through. There's a lot of places in the world with a high male-female ratio, and plenty of reason to want to leave Haiti. They'll all be gone before you even step foot on the island (even faster when they know you're on your way).

    I pity you.

  6. #46
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    onemoretim- The part that has any basis in reality.

    GENES struggle to reproduce. That's it. Everything else consists of strategies those genes use to reproduce. Some of these are competitive, others cooperative. Learn some game theory before making wild, turn-of-the-last-century proclamations.
    Genes do not walk and talk and make judgments. Genes do not form relationships or partake in conflict. Genes do not make life and death decisions. Genes are a basically blueprints to an organism, not an organism.

    It would seem your time in academia has amplified your Ne without any apparent corresponding growth in Ti and Se, thus the absurd silliness of your understanding of genes and their functions.

    Maybe get a job and live in the real world for awhile, might give ya some clarity. Better yet, get a job in the bush, although such jobs often demand strength of will and body, something your post indicate you might have a lack of.

    Seems your stuck, doomed to silly posters fate




    Not always. The impulse is there, but it's frowned upon for good reason - you need the group to survive, period. Adultery is a gamble on short-term success that has very heavy long-term potential losses. Meanwhile, making sure your kin survives and reproduces goes far toward ensuring that the totality of your genes passes on to the next generation, with the costs spread out over time. It's a better strategy.
    How did you bring adultery into the conversation and how is it related to my comments or the topic being discussed?

    Love those leaps of logic

    Nowhere. Interesting that you interpreted my comment to imply that. Nice paranoid siege mentality you've got going on there.
    Teenage babble, try harder, you're losing
    If you want a haughty narcissism contest, I'd suggest you don't. You won't win. Telling me to research logical fallacies, and then dropping an ad hominem in the same sentence? That's just pathetic.
    Do tell, where was the ad hominem?

    Suggesting a pattern of posting so as to help the poster appear more truthful is not an ad hominem attack. Better look it up


    *Yawn*

    You really are a lame-ass troll, you know. If I had to guess, you're an INTJ who's trying to do an ENTP impression, and failing miserably. It's OK - people had high hopes for New Coke too.
    Why the personal attacks, has your depth of understanding hit bottom and your only recourse a personal attack? Some time living on your own, not in your mothers house, should help you in digging a deeper well of life knowledge and understanding, till then, play nice

    Wait a sec, I've figured it out - it all makes sense now. You want sterilization so badly because it's the only way you'd ever get some on that island, or any landmass for that matter. Hate to tell ya, buddy - but you didn't think that one all the way through. There's a lot of places in the world with a high male-female ratio, and plenty of reason to want to leave Haiti. They'll all be gone before you even step foot on the island (even faster when they know you're on your way).

    I pity you.
    I'm guessing you just left your teen years, not so long ago

  7. #47
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape View Post
    Absolute Compassion versus Idiot Compassion

    "Absolute compassion is seeing the situation as it is, directly and thoroughly. If you have to be tough,you just do it. Idiot compassion contains a sort of opium - constantly trying to be good and kind. Absolute compassion is more literal, more discriminating and more definitive. You are willing to hurt somebody, even though you don't want to hurt that person, but in order wake that person up, you might have to hurt him or her,you might have to inflict pain."

    Chogyum Trungpa Rinpoche


    There is a severe over population problem in Haiti that needs to be addressed or the suffering will only get worse, generation to generation.

    Yes, help them with water, but mass sterilization must be considered.

    If animals were living in such misery, it would be considered inhumane to play the cat lady.

    Timid morality is the root cause of these peoples suffering

    Idiot compassion often lays the seeds for great suffering.
    Economic development lowers birthrates.

    What is your reasoning for considering mass sterilization?

    Is overpopulation a cause of the crisis in Haiti, or another result of the crisis in Haiti?

  8. #48
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape View Post
    Genes do not walk and talk and make judgments. Genes do not form relationships or partake in conflict. Genes do not make life and death decisions. Genes are a basically blueprints to an organism, not an organism.
    Wrong.

    It would seem your time in academia has amplified your Ne without any apparent corresponding growth in Ti and Se, thus the absurd silliness of your understanding of genes and their functions.
    *double yawn*

    Maybe get a job and live in the real world for awhile, might give ya some clarity. Better yet, get a job in the bush, although such jobs often demand strength of will and body, something your post indicate you might have a lack of.
    *looks at watch*

    Seems your stuck, doomed to silly posters fate
    Is he still going on?

    How did you bring adultery into the conversation and how is it related to my comments or the topic being discussed?

    Love those leaps of logic
    He's like a child who swings a bat around the room, smashing various articles of furniture, and calls himself a baseball player.

    Teenage babble, try harder, you're losing
    He reminds me of that Iraqi propaganda guy.

    Do tell, where was the ad hominem?
    Sad that he can't even recognize when he's dropping logical fallacies.

    Suggesting a pattern of posting so as to help the poster appear more truthful is not an ad hominem attack. Better look it up
    And the way he backpedals, isn't it just PRECIOUS?

    Why the personal attacks, has your depth of understanding hit bottom and your only recourse a personal attack? Some time living on your own, not in your mothers house, should help you in digging a deeper well of life knowledge and understanding, till then, play nice
    Aww, now he thinks he's worthy of rational debate like a big boy!

    I'm guessing you just left your teen years, not so long ago
    ...but he still can't make it to the toilet in time, not just yet.

  9. #49
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Just so everyone is clear . . . I'm not a fan of flames. And since there seems to be a lot of them in this thread, I figured I'd mention it here.

    In short, stop.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  10. #50
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    WTF?! Ape has been banned?!

    God damn you mods and your aggressive lust for control, striking where I least expect it!
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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