User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 26

  1. #1
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default The Story of Stuff

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLBE5QAYXp8"]Story of Stuff[/YOUTUBE]

    “Our enormously productive economy…demands that we make consumption our way of life, that we convert the buying and use of goods into rituals, that we seek our spiritual satisfaction, our ego satisfaction, in consumption…we need things consumed, burned up, replaced and discarded at an ever-accelerating rate.” – Victor LeBeau, Retail Analyst Post WW II

  2. #2
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    awesome vid. thanks for posting it. i couldn't agree more.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  3. #3
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,638

    Default

    There's a convergence going on between paleo-cons and commies on how alienating this trend is and just how much of a mess of contradictions it is but largely this remains the arena of hippies and tree huggers yet, if you ask me, therefore most of the mainstream population wont hear it out and it doesnt feature in the ideology of most libertarian or marketeer theorists.

  4. #4
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There's a convergence going on between paleo-cons and commies on how alienating this trend is and just how much of a mess of contradictions it is but largely this remains the arena of hippies and tree huggers yet, if you ask me, therefore most of the mainstream population wont hear it out and it doesnt feature in the ideology of most libertarian or marketeer theorists.
    Could you expound as to how it is a mess of contradictions?

  5. #5
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There's a convergence going on between paleo-cons and commies on how alienating this trend is and just how much of a mess of contradictions it is but largely this remains the arena of hippies and tree huggers yet, if you ask me, therefore most of the mainstream population wont hear it out and it doesnt feature in the ideology of most libertarian or marketeer theorists.
    Well, oftentimes hippies tend to be dreamer/idealist types, and can either feel or see the future of the impact their actions have/will have on the earth, moreso than other types who cannot, or who use a more practical approach to living on the earth.

    Look at the whole organic/green movements. They were largely started by hippies/grunge types too and now, after what? 30 years?, it's starting to filter out into the rest of society...........except perhaps, Texas, that is. It has to start somewhere.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #6
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    367

    Default

    I'd like to jump on board with the sentiment the video elicits. In fact, my entire being aches to do so, but.. where's the evidence that what we do isn't sustainable? Seems to me the only area of consumption that is known to be unsustainable is petroleum.

    Scares about all the trees disappearing are based on archaic 'facts.' We farm trees and manage forests just like any other crop. Metal is increasingly being mined from scrapyards rather than the ground. The video makes it sound like when we destroy a forest it's a permanent scar, and that when we throw things away they simply disappear. It's a preschool view of how the world works, at best.

    Quote: "We chop down the trees, we blow up mountains to get the metals inside, we use up all the water, and we wipe out all the animals." This claim is backed up by absolutely nothing except "I know this can be hard to hear but it's the truth so we've got to deal with it."

    And sure, it's is not very pleasant, but I have a suspicion productivism is necessary to sustain or expand the current human population level.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  7. #7
    Senior Member Dark Razor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    271

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes View Post

    Scares about all the trees disappearing are based on archaic 'facts.' We farm trees and manage forests just like any other crop. Metal is increasingly being mined from scrapyards rather than the ground. The video makes it sound like when we destroy a forest it's a permanent scar, and that when we throw things away they simply disappear. It's a preschool view of how the world works, at best.

    Quote: "We chop down the trees, we blow up mountains to get the metals inside, we use up all the water, and we wipe out all the animals." This claim is backed up by absolutely nothing except "I know this can be hard to hear but it's the truth so we've got to deal with it."

    And sure, it's is not very pleasant, but I have a suspicion productivism is necessary to sustain or expand the current human population level.
    Ever heard of soil erosion? Most forests aren't farmed sustainably, rather they are cut down, the soil washes away and the area becomes a desert. Examples of this are Madagascar or Haiti, or parts of Indonesia. Additionally we annihilate several species every day, most of which we have no idea what their importance is and some which we haven't even discovered yet. Most use / exploitation of natural resources isn't based on any type of cost / benefit analysis, but rather ignorant " oh its not gonna be a big deal if we cut down this forest and pollute that river" assumptions Which is why most economic activity is harmful to the sorrounding eco-systems by default and the harmful impact is only lessend by effort.

    An issue with metals is that the really rare ones (like vital ones for electronics) cannot be recycled very well because there is only a tiny amount in every individual product, and their accessible supply is fairly small.

    I also dont think we should "expand the current human population level" rather we should work to bring down overall birth rates.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sp/sx
    Posts
    1,636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Razor View Post
    Ever heard of soil erosion? Most forests aren't farmed sustainably, rather they are cut down, the soil washes away and the area becomes a desert. Examples of this are Madagascar or Haiti, or parts of Indonesia. Additionally we annihilate several species every day, most of which we have no idea what their importance is and some which we haven't even discovered yet. Most use / exploitation of natural resources isn't based on any type of cost / benefit analysis, but rather ignorant " oh its not gonna be a big deal if we cut down this forest and pollute that river" assumptions Which is why most economic activity is harmful to the sorrounding eco-systems by default and the harmful impact is only lessend by effort.

    An issue with metals is that the really rare ones (like vital ones for electronics) cannot be recycled very well because there is only a tiny amount in every individual product, and their accessible supply is fairly small.

    I also dont think we should "expand the current human population level" rather we should work to bring down overall birth rates.

    I suspect we'll eventually hit the production possibilities curve with an "oh, shit!" There are way way way too many people on this planet. Especially, when one considers people outnumber rabbits and rats.

    I see starvation in mass at some future date. Especially if/when the oil supply is interrupted or the current global economic system collapses and puts food suppliers/businesses out of business.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Razor View Post
    Ever heard of soil erosion? Most forests aren't farmed sustainably, rather they are cut down, the soil washes away and the area becomes a desert. Examples of this are Madagascar or Haiti, or parts of Indonesia.
    Rehabilitating the land after catastrophic wildfire was the specialty of my father's career. I am well-aware of soil erosion and how to stop it. I won't argue with your points about how land is managed in those places you mentioned, but here in the United States, land is most-assuredly managed with erosion in mind.

    People treat the United States as some kind of barren wasteland where we've desecrated the land because of our insatiable desire for consumer products, but in reality it is very well-managed.

    Additionally we annihilate several species every day, most of which we have no idea what their importance is and some which we haven't even discovered yet.
    Species go extinct naturally every day, too. Also, sometimes you step on ants just trying to walk down the street. Yes, our effects have repercussions.

    Most use / exploitation of natural resources isn't based on any type of cost / benefit analysis, but rather ignorant " oh its not gonna be a big deal if we cut down this forest and pollute that river" assumptions Which is why most economic activity is harmful to the sorrounding eco-systems by default and the harmful impact is only lessend by effort.
    Agreed. People tend to look at short term gains and fail to account for long-term sustainability of their actions. But we're getting better at it. We really are. So the intense criticism is an overreaction, I think.

    An issue with metals is that the really rare ones (like vital ones for electronics) cannot be recycled very well because there is only a tiny amount in every individual product, and their accessible supply is fairly small.
    Once it's easier to find these metals above-ground than below, that's what we'll do.

    I also dont think we should "expand the current human population level" rather we should work to bring down overall birth rates.
    Completely agreed. But let's face it: each time we get more productive, people create more people to fill the new void, rather than holding off on reproduction and enjoying the newfound production for themselves. I don't think this will ever change.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  10. #10
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    LoL
    Posts
    929

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    I suspect we'll eventually hit the production possibilities curve with an "oh, shit!" There are way way way too many people on this planet. Especially, when one considers people outnumber rabbits and rats.
    Every conversation about "environmentalism," "sustainability," etc. is a conversation about population control. Every one. The people who don't want to admit this had better become comfortable with the idea of eugenics if they think sustainability is really the way to go...
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM

Similar Threads

  1. The Story of the Brain's Cacophony of Competing Voices
    By Vasilisa in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-10-2011, 04:18 AM
  2. The Story of God Vol I: Genesis (satirical)
    By sabastious in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-22-2009, 04:06 PM
  3. The Story of Your Life: What is the Title?
    By Synarch in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 12-15-2008, 05:49 PM
  4. Story of Stuff
    By 01011010 in forum Home, Garden and Nature
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-30-2008, 09:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO