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  1. #11
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    ^population control is a large part of it, sure. But I fail to see what eugenics has to do with anything.
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  2. #12
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    ^population control is a large part of it, sure. But I fail to see what eugenics has to do with anything.
    Population control = Eugenics. Even if you choose to choose randomly who either a. dies or b. isn't born it's still a form of choice. Just like once we gained the ability to do genetic engineering, the conscious choice to not do it is also genetic engineering...
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
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  3. #13
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    If pre-man hadn't eaten meat, we wouldn't have all been sitting here typing to each other like reasonably intelligent monkeys.

    Which isn't to imply that eating more meat will make us any more "smat'er"

    That also reminds me of the couple in Russian, who decided it might be a good idea to run their motorcar while parked in the garage...with the door down and fucking.

    Interestingly, they both died of carbon monoxide poisoning and may not have noticed in self-centerdly experiencing superior sex.

    Over time, I've chosen not to breed. Not because I don't want for having the experience of children, it's just that I love that percieved child so much...I wouldn't want to put them through the future pain of this over-populated and psychotic experience.

    i.e. Me talking with use people through the www vs. face to face

    Since 1985 the number of people each of us has they feel like they can have a meaningful conversation with has decreased by 56 percent on a statistical basis...

    I'm on a purely STP rant can anybody else hear what I am saying?

    Am I actually speaking in a language that someone else can hear?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    Could you expound as to how it is a mess of contradictions?
    On the paleo-con side Daniel Bell and Christopher Lasch have pretty much summed it up, on the left side, hmm, nothing really recent but perhaps Eric Fromm was the last one to write about the contradictions between having and being.

    Its cultural contradictions, productivity is as great a need as consumerism but consumers are needed more than producers in a modern economy based on the circulation of money.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speculative View Post
    Population control = Eugenics. Even if you choose to choose randomly who either a. dies or b. isn't born it's still a form of choice. Just like once we gained the ability to do genetic engineering, the conscious choice to not do it is also genetic engineering...
    I'm inclined to believe that Aphrodite is right on this.

    Eugenics doesnt necessarily imply the state/authorities lead social engineering you're describing, if you decline to marry your cousin because you know at the genetic level you are too similar for healthy off spring then you've made a eugenic decision. There was a thread on this I think.

    Like if a government were to produce ID cards with genetic details on it and inform people that they should be sure of their prospective partners dissimilarity that could be as compulsive or coercive as it gets, just another health promotion campaign but if people paid attention it would be for the best. Not likely because the communities which are for want of a better description "inbred" are unlikely to be paying much attention to health promotion or inclined towards sensible and reasonable choices.

    Population controls arent necessarily eugenic, if you discriminated on the grounds of race or anything like that you'd not be applying eugenic criteria either.

  6. #16
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm inclined to believe that Aphrodite is right on this.

    Eugenics doesnt necessarily imply the state/authorities lead social engineering you're describing, if you decline to marry your cousin because you know at the genetic level you are too similar for healthy off spring then you've made a eugenic decision. There was a thread on this I think.

    Like if a government were to produce ID cards with genetic details on it and inform people that they should be sure of their prospective partners dissimilarity that could be as compulsive or coercive as it gets, just another health promotion campaign but if people paid attention it would be for the best. Not likely because the communities which are for want of a better description "inbred" are unlikely to be paying much attention to health promotion or inclined towards sensible and reasonable choices.

    Population controls arent necessarily eugenic, if you discriminated on the grounds of race or anything like that you'd not be applying eugenic criteria either.
    I think you need to do more research:
    Eugenics and the Nazis -- the California connection - SFGate

    If you're going to control the population, you're not necessarily going to have to sterilize people, mandate birth control or tell who to stop fucking...but in practice, to achive population control, you're going to have to do those things...which all add up to eugenics...which was already practiced in the US in the early 20th century before the nazis ever got the idea...

  7. #17
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    If pre-man hadn't eaten meat, we wouldn't have all been sitting here typing to each other like reasonably intelligent monkeys.

    Which isn't to imply that eating more meat will make us any more "smat'er"

    That also reminds me of the couple in Russian, who decided it might be a good idea to run their motorcar while parked in the garage...with the door down and fucking.

    Interestingly, they both died of carbon monoxide poisoning and may not have noticed in self-centerdly experiencing superior sex.

    Over time, I've chosen not to breed. Not because I don't want for having the experience of children, it's just that I love that percieved child so much...I wouldn't want to put them through the future pain of this over-populated and psychotic experience.

    i.e. Me talking with use people through the www vs. face to face

    Since 1985 the number of people each of us has they feel like they can have a meaningful conversation with has decreased by 56 percent on a statistical basis...

    I'm on a purely STP rant can anybody else hear what I am saying?

    Am I actually speaking in a language that someone else can hear?

    I totally get you.

    My main struggle in life recently and in the recent past has been not having any friends/connections in my life whereby I can have the kind of meaningful convos I NEED TO HAVE! And I don't think it was always like this for society, and I'm not sure why. Hence, why I'm online so much, seeking it out.

    We watched some tapes by Peter Russell (my istp discovered him) and he describes our future as one of a living organism, cyber-connected, and making links that will enable us to better address future problems and just making a different world for ourselves, instead of our physical world of neighborhood. So, it's interesting stuff. Someone in NYC could possibly do more for my personal growth than my friend down the road, leading to more favorable outcomes for humanity? So, I'm wondering if the disconnect we're feeling (your stat) is reflective of the beginning of that process; disconnecting from physical relationships and reconnecting to form more productive modern cyber relationships.

    The birth of the Borg.

    I see more and more people foregoing childbearing (esp the younger generations) and limiting children, which fascinates me. This combined with 'new' (revisited) sexual paradigms like polyandry and polyamory, makes me wonder if we don't just naturally understand, as disconnected as we are from nature, on some primal level what we need to do to survive in this world, and to have our planet be able to sustain our species.

    So, yeah, I get you.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  8. #18
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I think you need to do more research:
    Eugenics and the Nazis -- the California connection - SFGate

    If you're going to control the population, you're not necessarily going to have to sterilize people, mandate birth control or tell who to stop fucking...but in practice, to achive population control, you're going to have to do those things...which all add up to eugenics...which was already practiced in the US in the early 20th century before the nazis ever got the idea...
    Yeah and maybe you need to understand your research.

    What has this got to do with anything? The Nazis were fans of Keynesianism, patriotism and looking after veterans too, though none of those things by themselves IS Nazism which is I think is what you're implying.

    Eugenics was around before Nazism and it'll be around for a long time afterwards, celebrites getting their genome mapped to screen for heritage mental infirmities like bi-polar disorder is closer to eugenics than the "racial hygiene" of Nazism.

    There's no need to sterilise anyone to control the population, in most of the western, northern hemisphere fertility is in decline, demographic and cultural drift is resulting in people no having families or having smaller families, fertility treatments are in high demand in the UK on the National Health Service, it could be just a question of withdrawing those services or taxing them in a way that prices most people out of the market for them.

    No coercion, no forced sterilisation, nothing or other social policies could be applied such as tying benefits for mentally or physically unfit and incapacitated persons disqualified from the working population to sterilisation or treating third generation unwilling to work benefit claimants similarly. Again this would be voluntary as no one is compelling to claim benefits.

    I even suspect that most would choose it in exchange for a payment. I read a sci fi once in which a state choose to offer citizens single payments to voluntary submit to sterilisation and created a crime free society with full employment within five years.

    Although that's population control and social policy, its not eugenics which is about the "breeding" of off spring, genetic compatibility and diversity, different matter and not to do with statism anymore than welfare, financial support, gun control, crime fighting or health are functions of the state either.

  9. #19
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    Is this the video about evil corporations and the government destroying the planet and other countries - or is this something else?

    I can't actually load the video....

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  10. #20
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    I was kind of enjoying it... until she got to the computer... then it was like uhm... 1 small piece and yeu need to ditch the whole thing?

    Nooooo... ram, board, video card, processor are all major upgrade components which need to be replaced because they're getting so much better so frequently... it's not just one piece, and it gets replaced for good reason, because the infrastructure changes to be more effecient; a dual core processor wouldn't even remotely work properly on an older board because of how it has to be built to use that extra stuff...

    If she's so grotesquely wrong about that thing.. how much else is total nonsense >.>

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