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  1. #21
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    For instance, I think that a private employer should have every right to fire someone who is openly gay if they want.
    Easy for you to say if you're not the gay person at risk of being fired simply for being who you are. Hiding who you are and having to lie constantly and invent cover stories in order to keep up the appearence of being straight just to keep your job while others around you are allowed to lead open and honest lives just because they happen to be mainstream is absolutely unacceptable. I've known many people who have had to lie and evade in such a way because they were afraid to lose their jobs and they were incredibly unhappy with the double-life they were forced to lead. No one should be forced to be that miserable over something that should not be discriminated against in the first place.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



  2. #22
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Easy for you to say if you're not the gay person at risk of being fired simply for being who you are. Hiding who you are and having to lie constantly and invent cover stories in order to keep up the appearence of being straight just to keep your job while others around you are allowed to lead open and honest lives just because they happen to be mainstream is absolutely unacceptable. I've known many people who have had to lie and evade in such a way because they were afraid to lose their jobs and they were incredibly unhappy with the double-life they were forced to lead. No one should be forced to be that miserable over something that should not be discriminated against in the first place.
    It's a question of principles. No employer should be forced to hire or keep on a worker they don't want. A job is NOT a right. Happiness in your life situation is NOT a right.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #23
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    It stems from an attitute of discrimination toward homosexuality, which supports the idea that they don't have or deserve the same rights as straight people. Of course this prom thing in and of itself is not a civil rights issue, but the people that are not allowing her to bring a girl as her date are the same general type of people who work against homosexual civil rights and oppress them simply for being different. The prom may not be a direct violation, but the attitudes causing the problem is what leads to civil rights violations. When the attitude changes, so will the laws.
    Wow, wow, wow!!

    What so what I think could constitute a violation of someones civil rights?! Well without freedom of thought were do civil rights begin? There's no such thing as the sovereignty of the individual even in that case.

    I'm not buying it, this whole situation feeds into the sorts of people who are attention starved or nursing vague private grievances, a sense of "victimhood" which black community leaders have been trying to get their communities to shake of for a long time and I'm pretty sure that's a trend that no right thinking homosexual is going to want to see encouraged.

    Now I dont see a duty on the part of heterosexuals to foster homosexuality, I just dont see it, in the same way as I'd not argue with someone who has made up their mind that they are homosexual and are content.

    That should be simple but instead there's all sorts of convoluted "reasoning" as to why it isnt the case, to be righteous we have to adopt an attitude of approval towards any alternative or minority group, I'm sorry, no, that is only leading more and more people who otherwise wouldnt care, either because they are apathetic or tolerant, into opposition and anger.

  4. #24
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment and Supreme Court cases interpreting its application to LGBT people would seem to prohibit a school from arbitrarily banning any couple from attending prom because of sexual orientation. They probably cancelled in order to avoid the legal consequences of discriminating on that basis - they would need to provide a defensible rationale. Here's a concise summary of the issue and relevant Court decisions:

    More recently, in 1996, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a policy based on nothing more than animosity or prejudice toward lesbians and gay men violates the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution. In other words, schools must have a rational basis* for discriminating against gay or lesbian students. Romer v. Evans, 517 U.S. 620 (1996). Under the equal protection clause, schools cannot place restrictions on same-sex couples, such as requiring parental permission before attending prom, that they do not place on co-ed couples.
    *In the words used in the SC's decision:

    (not a) status-based classification of persons undertaken for its own sake, something the Equal Protection Clause does not permit.
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  5. #25
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Yall Politics

    Here’s the news, from a source I view as extremely reliable. The prom the school district promised at the country club in Fulton was a ruse. Only seven kids, Constance, and her date showed, and at the same time, everyone else held a “real” prom at a secret location out in the county.

    This is all after the school district had represented to Judge Davidson that Constance was invited to a parent-sponsored prom to be held at Tupelo Furniture Market. The school represented that Constance was invited in court filings, testimony, and representations by the school district and its lawyers. In reality, Constance had not been invited, but, based on the representations by the district and its counsel, Judge Davidson denied Constance’s request for a preliminary injunction that she could go to the prom.

    The school reneged, or possibly didn’t ever intend to follow through on its representations to the court. The parents didn’t want Constance at the prom and didn’t want to be sued (as they told the Clarion Ledger), and so on Tuesday announced the cancellation of the prom.

    But what they’d done was secretly relocated it.

    Shortly thereafter, the school’s attorney announced (on Wednesday) that “the prom” was to be held at the Fulton Country Club on Friday. But yet only seven kids showed up.

    Meanwhile, there’s a rumor that school officials were directly involved in setting up the “fake” prom.
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  6. #26
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    If true, that is a gigantic dick move.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    If true, that is a gigantic dick move.
    I guess we'll find out. I have trouble believing everyone involved can keep their mouths shut for long, if this was true. At the least, there would be photos, and catering, and limo/tux rentals, and gown sales, and flowers/corsages, and whatever else they do nowadays.

    There is no way to keep such a big party secret unless they all wore dungarees and had chips and punch from Wal-Mart.

    I wonder what sort of liability the district has if they are discovered to have lied/misrepresented in court. (If they did, I personally hope they get hit with the max penalty for everything possible.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    It's a question of principles. No employer should be forced to hire or keep on a worker they don't want. A job is NOT a right. Happiness in your life situation is NOT a right.
    So you would be totally ok with an employer who wouldn't hire women, or people with glasses, or brunettes, or chinese men?

    What if it was every employer, or nearly every employer?

    If you were born into one of those target groups and then couldn't get a job, would you still have these "principles"? Would you happily resign yourself to a minimum wage job because "the employers can pick who they want"?

    Just wondering.
    -end of thread-

  9. #29
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    So you would be totally ok with an employer who wouldn't hire women, or people with glasses, or brunettes, or chinese men?

    What if it was every employer, or nearly every employer?

    If you were born into one of those target groups and then couldn't get a job, would you still have these "principles"? Would you happily resign yourself to a minimum wage job because "the employers can pick who they want"?

    Just wondering.
    QFT.

    Basically, there have been some categories that, if you were placed within in a particular culture, you were completely hosed.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #30
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    It seems pretty silly to me to fire a productive worker on the grounds that they are gay/Chinese/a woman/brunette/etc. I mean, they are doing what they're being paid to do.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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