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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Just because Constance was the only out homosexual to fight the school, doesn't mean she really literally is the only LGBT person at her school, or the only student who thinks the rules are unfair. I bet plenty of people in the school community have contentions with this action.
    Oh sorry, didnt realise that homosexuals were now the majority and homosexuality the societal norm. Alright. Then this doesnt make any sense at all. Constance should be prom queen.

  2. #12
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Oh sorry, didnt realise that homosexuals were now the majority and homosexuality the societal norm. Alright. Then this doesnt make any sense at all. Constance should be prom queen.
    It doesn't matter if there are only two lesbian teens in the country, the principle still stands. The majority does not get to trample the minority in this country. Well, that is how it is SUPPOSED to be, anyway.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #13
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well in this instance it is, I'd say its at the discretion of the organisers and participants, I dont know whether gay students should be segregated but there's a point at which you have to draw a line when it comes to minority-majority relations. Simple as.
    Well then, let's not let any of the white students come with black or mexican students as their prom date. In fact, let's hold a seperate prom just for the black students, and another one just for the mexican students, so we don't have to worry about them influencing the white students with their abnormal cultures and lifestyles that might be dangerous to the values the white parents are teaching their children. Wouldn't want to give them ideas about how everybody deserves the same treatment regardless of appearence or gender or orientation or anything. They might start to think segregation is a bad thing.

    There is a difference between catering to demands of the vocal minority and standing up for human rights. Saying "you cannot do this because you are homosexual" is the same as "you cannot do this because you are not white" which is the same as "you cannot do this because you are a woman". It's the same old struggle against bigotry and ignorance and dominance coming from a different perspective. Little struggles like this are what give momentum to a bigger cause that strives to secure equal treatment under the law for everyone, absolutely and without qualification.

    Also, just because it is the opinion of the majority doesn't make it right. We've had enough conflicts in our history to prove that is true.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



  4. #14
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Well then, let's not let any of the white students come with black or mexican students as their prom date.
    Or maybe not make arguments on the basis that there's moral equivalence between racism and sexual norms or mores because there isnt.

    Also, just because it is the opinion of the majority doesn't make it right. We've had enough conflicts in our history to prove that is true.
    Yeah, I'm confident that history's going to pass a similar judgement about attempts by heterosexuals to popularise homosexuality.

  5. #15
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Or maybe not make arguments on the basis that there's moral equivalence between racism and sexual norms or mores because there isnt.
    The issue isn't sexual norms/mores. It's sexual IDENTITY and the free expression thereof. If a minor student were to take an adult to the prom, or if there were some type of illegal sexual conduct in public, that would be forbidden. However, a public school is NOT the forum for this type of debate. The majority does not get to pick and choose what is allowable.


    Yeah, I'm confident that history's going to pass a similar judgement about attempts by heterosexuals to popularise homosexuality.
    Depends on the people involved. Many of those in the struggle for civil rights were NOT very good people. Some had some very nefarious agendas. Others were heroes. The same holds for all movements.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #16
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Or maybe not make arguments on the basis that there's moral equivalence between racism and sexual norms or mores because there isnt.
    Actually, there is. You think the fact that a black person and a white person were not allowed to marry was not an issue of sexual normality? People made all sorts of rationalizations and excuses to explain away why they wanted to keep discrimination against non-whites legal, thinking themselves very rational and not hateful at all, but it didn't fly because people came to realize what utter bullshit those reasons were. People make the same type of rationalizations and excuses about homosexuals, once again thinking themselves to be perfectly reasonable and accomodating, when they're spouting the same hateful brand of bullshit all over again.

    It is absolutely comparable to the fight for racial equality, to the struggle for equality for women, to any conflict where a specific group was singled out and oppressed by the majority just because they were different. Anyone who rationalizes this sort of prejudice as the majority protecting their own rights is hiding behind a weak justification to enforce their hatred upon people. People don't have the right to withhold civil rights from a person or group just because you don't like them or don't agree with them.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



  7. #17
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Well then, let's not let any of the white students come with black or mexican students as their prom date. In fact, let's hold a seperate prom just for the black students, and another one just for the mexican students, so we don't have to worry about them influencing the white students with their abnormal cultures and lifestyles that might be dangerous to the values the white parents are teaching their children. Wouldn't want to give them ideas about how everybody deserves the same treatment regardless of appearence or gender or orientation or anything. They might start to think segregation is a bad thing.

    There is a difference between catering to demands of the vocal minority and standing up for human rights. Saying "you cannot do this because you are homosexual" is the same as "you cannot do this because you are not white" which is the same as "you cannot do this because you are a woman". It's the same old struggle against bigotry and ignorance and dominance coming from a different perspective. Little struggles like this are what give momentum to a bigger cause that strives to secure equal treatment under the law for everyone, absolutely and without qualification.

    Also, just because it is the opinion of the majority doesn't make it right. We've had enough conflicts in our history to prove that is true.
    Quite right. Fair treatment for all, irrespective of gender, race or sexual orientation.

    This joker calls himself a "social worker", which signs him up to a written code of conduct that promotes diversity. Something he evidently finds repulsive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, I'm confident that history's going to pass a similar judgement about attempts by heterosexuals to popularise homosexuality.
    If his employers knew about his execrable views he would be fired. If he had any integrity, he would resign.

    Yet he appears like a waft of stale urine to give us the benefit of his homophobic musings and enlighten us with his vacuous regurgitations.

    All the while, this friendless loner sets up camp as Panty-Sniffer In Residence on the "Mature Topics" threadings. Happy pie hawking, saddo.


  8. #18
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Actually, there is. You think the fact that a black person and a white person were not allowed to marry was not an issue of sexual normality? People made all sorts of rationalizations and excuses to explain away why they wanted to keep discrimination against non-whites legal, thinking themselves very rational and not hateful at all, but it didn't fly because people came to realize what utter bullshit those reasons were. People make the same type of rationalizations and excuses about homosexuals, once again thinking themselves to be perfectly reasonable and accomodating, when they're spouting the same hateful brand of bullshit all over again.

    It is absolutely comparable to the fight for racial equality, to the struggle for equality for women, to any conflict where a specific group was singled out and oppressed by the majority just because they were different. Anyone who rationalizes this sort of prejudice as the majority protecting their own rights is hiding behind a weak justification to enforce their hatred upon people. People don't have the right to withhold civil rights from a person or group just because you don't like them or don't agree with them.
    Let's not go too far here. Going to a prom is NOT a civil right. And, often, the same people who are all for fighting for the minority when it comes to social issues are MORE than happy to trample the rights of the minority when it's politically convenient. The whole point of the United States is that each individual has rights that may not be taken away no matter what the majority feels.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #19
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Let's not go too far here. Going to a prom is NOT a civil right.
    It stems from an attitute of discrimination toward homosexuality, which supports the idea that they don't have or deserve the same rights as straight people. Of course this prom thing in and of itself is not a civil rights issue, but the people that are not allowing her to bring a girl as her date are the same general type of people who work against homosexual civil rights and oppress them simply for being different. The prom may not be a direct violation, but the attitudes causing the problem is what leads to civil rights violations. When the attitude changes, so will the laws.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



  10. #20
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    It stems from an attitute of discrimination toward homosexuality, which supports the idea that they don't have or deserve the same rights as straight people. Of course this prom thing in and of itself is not a civil rights issue, but the people that are not allowing her to bring a girl as her date are the same general type of people who work against homosexual civil rights and oppress them simply for being different. The prom may not be a direct violation, but the attitudes causing the problem is what leads to civil rights violations. When the attitude changes, so will the laws.
    That's painting with a pretty broad brush. And we also have to define exactly what is a civil right. For instance, I think that a private employer should have every right to fire someone who is openly gay if they want. I believe in freedom of association. However, you cannot allow a public school to decide whether a gay student can bring a same-sex friend to an event. It is not within their purview to do so.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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