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  1. #21
    Senior Member ChildoftheProphets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    How do you account for point of view though? History tends to be evaluative and aims to make sense of the course of events. This necessarily introduces a point of view.

    Example: Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

    One point of view (orthodox): Bombings were necessary to save American and Japanese lives and to preclude an invasion of Japan.

    Another point of view: United States is the only nation to use nuclear weapons against human beings. Many civilians died unnecessarily as an act of war perpetrated by the Allies.

    Another point of view: US was eager to use nuclear weapons to signal its deterrent capability to the Soviet Union who it foresaw as a global competitor.
    These examples are interpretations of history or motivations of those "carrying out" history, not straight history per se.

    Still, these 3 interpretations/motivations need not be mutually exculsive. The nukes DID shorten the war and thus decrease the long-term casuality numbers (as viewpoint 1 claims), the U.S. IS the only power to have ever used nukes and in doing so we killed CIVILIANS who might not have otherwise died (as viewpoint 2 claims), and we DID start the Cold War arms race with the Soviet Union by devoloping and using nukes (as finally your last point implies).

    Still, going further, rather than making any grand, arbitrary statements about motivation or interpretation in a third person type of voice, history textbooks can (and sometimes do) include first-hand accounts and documents, allowing the people of any given time the chance to outright speak for themselves.

    For example, a chapter about the last year of WWII might present Pentegon memos, transcripts of Japanese political speeches, and essays written by scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project, all as first-person explanations for the fairly objective events that everyone agrees happened: the actual bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Students could then form their own opinions about what happened, and then discuss their own differences of interpretation (which has the nice bonus of stretching oratory and critical thinking skills).

    (Anyway, lol, you still haven't explained synarchy and secret aristocracy!)
    "In the opening and shutting of heaven's gate, are you able to play the feminine part?" -- Lao Tzu

    "For when the One Great Scorer comes
    To write against your name,
    He marks - not that you won or lost -
    But how you played the Game."
    -- Grantland Rice

    “Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” -- from The Catcher in the Rye

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do, and what a man can't do." -- Jack Sparrow

  2. #22
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChildoftheProphets View Post
    These examples are interpretations of history or motivations of those "carrying out" history, not straight history per se.

    Still, these 3 interpretations/motivations need not be mutually exculsive. The nukes DID shorten the war and thus decrease the long-term casuality numbers (as viewpoint 1 claims), the U.S. IS the only power to have ever used nukes and in doing so we killed CIVILIANS who might not have otherwise died (as viewpoint 2 claims), and we DID start the Cold War arms race with the Soviet Union by devoloping and using nukes (as finally your last point implies).

    Still, going further, rather than making any grand, arbitrary statements about motivation or interpretation in a third person type of voice, history textbooks can (and sometimes do) include first-hand accounts and documents, allowing the people of any given time the chance to outright speak for themselves.

    For example, a chapter about the last year of WWII might present Pentegon memos, transcripts of Japanese political speeches, and essays written by scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project, all as first-person explanations for the fairly objective events that everyone agrees happened: the actual bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Students could then form their own opinions about what happened, and then discuss their own differences of interpretation (which has the nice bonus of stretching oratory and critical thinking skills).

    (Anyway, lol, you still haven't explained synarchy and secret aristocracy!)
    Google "synarchy".
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #23
    Senior Member ChildoftheProphets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Google "synarchy".
    Lol, why does everybody always say that!! As if I didn't think about googling it already, but then thought, no, I want to hear this person's personal view on the matter. . . plus, I'm just lazy . . . .

    Anyway, fine, I'll go google it, but lol, you just lost a discussion partner, at least for today.

    :workout:

    Take care Synarch.
    "In the opening and shutting of heaven's gate, are you able to play the feminine part?" -- Lao Tzu

    "For when the One Great Scorer comes
    To write against your name,
    He marks - not that you won or lost -
    But how you played the Game."
    -- Grantland Rice

    “Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” -- from The Catcher in the Rye

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do, and what a man can't do." -- Jack Sparrow

  4. #24
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChildoftheProphets View Post
    Lol, why does everybody always say that!! As if I didn't think about googling it already, but then thought, no, I want to hear this person's personal view on the matter. . . plus, I'm just lazy . . . .

    Anyway, fine, I'll go google it, but lol, you just lost a discussion partner, at least for today.

    :workout:

    Take care Synarch.
    Don't get butthurt. I really thought you didn't know what it meant. If you wanted to know what it means to me, say that instead.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #25
    Senior Member ChildoftheProphets's Avatar
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    Lol, no worries man, forget about it.
    "In the opening and shutting of heaven's gate, are you able to play the feminine part?" -- Lao Tzu

    "For when the One Great Scorer comes
    To write against your name,
    He marks - not that you won or lost -
    But how you played the Game."
    -- Grantland Rice

    “Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” -- from The Catcher in the Rye

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do, and what a man can't do." -- Jack Sparrow

  6. #26
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I wouldnt describe this as far right, they are mainstream right and pretty nostalgic and dreamy to be honest, particularly:

    students will be required to study the decline in value of the U.S. dollar, including the abandonment of the gold standard...
    Not very likely to lead to the sort of ephany in popular economic understanding that's necessary. They should be reading institutional economics at the very, very least.

  7. #27
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    No More Enlightenment for you: Texas Removes Thomas Jefferson From Teaching Standard - AOL News

    The board voted to enact new teaching standards for history and social studies that will alter which material gets included in school textbooks. It decided to drop Jefferson from a world history section devoted to great political thinkers.

    According to Texas Freedom Network, a group that opposes many of the changes put in place by the Board of Education, the original curriculum asked students to "explain the impact of Enlightenment ideas from John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Voltaire, Charles de Montesquieu, Jean Jacques Rousseau and Thomas Jefferson on political revolutions from 1750 to the present."


    AP
    The Texas Board of Education is dropping President Thomas Jefferson from a world history section devoted to great political thinkers.
    That emphasis did not sit well with board member Cynthia Dunbar, who, during Friday's meeting, explained the rationale for changing it. "The Enlightenment was not the only philosophy on which these revolutions were based," Dunbar said.

    The new standard, passed at the meeting in a 10-5 vote, now reads, "Explain the impact of the writings of John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Voltaire, Charles de Montesquieu, Jean Jacques Rousseau, Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and Sir William Blackstone."

    By dropping mention of revolution, and substituting figures such as Aquinas and Calvin for Jefferson, Texas Freedom Network argues, the board had chosen to embrace religious teachings over those of Jefferson, the man who coined the phrase "separation between church and state."
    http://o.aolcdn.com/photo-hub/news_g...451767674.JPEG
    Last edited by heart; 03-18-2010 at 06:09 PM.

  8. #28
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I wouldnt describe this as far right, they are mainstream right and pretty nostalgic and dreamy to be honest, particularly:



    Not very likely to lead to the sort of ephany in popular economic understanding that's necessary. They should be reading institutional economics at the very, very least.
    Yeah, far-right would be abolishing the postal service. This is just American conservative right.

    It's so funny how they blackballed Thomas Jefferson from the curriculum. Like, you can't do that. And they're trying to replace him with John Calvin!

    edit: Jinx, heart!

  9. #29
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    How can one have any USA history without the traid of Jefferson, Hamilton and Burr? You can't. You just can't. Well, I suppose Adams counted in there too.

  10. #30
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Wow! Well, hand it to the Christians. They have got some stones. Time to abolish public education.

    I do like Blackstone, though.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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