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  1. #81
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I am not from the US so I am just going to be blunt with all of you since I am not a part of your culture/mindset/political environment or whatever you want to call it.


    I am exploring the topic of global warming for about 20 years now and you can even say it belongs into my profesional interests. (since it is possble that I will work for a mining company one day)


    In other words I really like global warming. Since it is a braking point for the US. Which is because it clearly shows how much your society is flawed.


    1. You have so called free media which are not really free since they serve to various groups of people to get their message across. Don't lie to yourself, those media exist only to make profit and they will in general put on air everything that makes profit or what politically benefits the idols of the owner of that TV company.


    2. It also shows how hard it is do get the real data. I mean I am not suprised at all people in the US don't "believe" in global warming. Since you simply can't hardly even get to the real data (in general not just about AGW).
    Since everything that comes out in US press is more or less created or at least modified in some think-tank.
    And then all sides accuse each other that their data is flawed. Which is of course true since every one just wants to create more drama in hope of winning an argument. I think that global warming is real but there is no way I will make Al Gore my idol. (no way)



    3. Also it clearly shows how subjective you really are as a culture. I mean the global warming is scientific term and it is not that much hard to prove or disprove it. However since most americans have crappy scientific knowledge they debate this tiopic with their hearts and beliefs. What obviously leads to no where. Since you are not even discussing global warming as a subject you are discussing what you believe when it comes to global warming.
    In other words just the question "Do you believe in global warming" shows that that most of american are not at the same wavelenght as the problem.




    4. Lets be honest. How many of you even come close your your food before you bought is at the super market ? In other words people don't grow their own food they are likely not to know about all technical problems that changes in climate could have on food production. Since this information is off limits to you. If nothing that is because it is a business secret.
    Why in so many movies you have "skockpile food and ammo" element ? You have it becuse all of you are treated like children. (it is just that you have to pay) Not to mention that becuse of technological superiority you can somewhat compensate for changes while many other countries don't have that luxuriy. Which is one of the reasons why AGW is less of a taboo in many other countries.


    5. And then you have politician that are running the show for people in the background. While in fact they are hidding the fact that you are not no. 1 economy of the world (even from us that live in different countries)
    The thing is that the oil can be bought only for dollars in modern world and only in a very few special places. However if you want to run modern economy you must have the oil. But you can't get it if you don't have the dollars. So in order to get them you must sell something to the US so that you can get their(yours) money so that you can buy the oil. However since all countries are doing this you have a free hand to print as much money as you want (unless you trully go over the line) since they need your money.
    Which in the end becomes/settles as a reserve of some country. I mean this is why dollar is a reserve currency of the world. Also this is why US makes only 4.5% of the worlds population but it makes about 50% of the world military budget.
    Which is becuse you have the resources for that and you want to make sure that oil can be bought only for dollars. Since this way US gets alot of resources for free (since you only have to print money) so it is easy to create a society with high standard that way. So the reason why you are not really economy no 1 is becuse it is all pretty much fictional. This is why all over the US people do some kinds of a office work of sale something. I mean you are not producting nation anymore so people at power have to invent all those "fictional" office jobs to create the illusuion that everything is ok.


    So what does that have to do with global warming ? If global warming is a problem we have to get off the oil. But if that happens the illision that US has a economy will disapear over the night. Since no one will need your money that much. Basicly this is why conservative media are creating the mindset that "believing" in global warming is not patriotic. What in a way is true at this moment since trade of oil for dallars is your life support system and your country will surely crash if there are sudden changes. Basicly every problem you are facing is in the end is tightly connected to this. Which is that you technically don't have the economy anymore. If you think I am a conspiracy theorist ask yourself where is a all that industry that existed in the US a few decades ago and why do many product have on them "made in China" "made in India" made in Brazil" etc.


    As for me personally: people even consider to be "unusually pro American" what in a way is true. However I am fascinated by how little average american knows what is happening to him/her and yet things somehow still work.(at least for now)



    So I would take some time to think about all of this a little bit if I were you.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Yeah? prove it.
    Yeah, prove it wont...

    For the purpose of argument I'll pretend I'm completely math, chemistry, and physics retarded and that all of this global warming evidence is just a bunch of sciency sounding words strung together on a piece of paper in front of me...

    that being said.. we could use the same statistics employed by the guy who was vehemently against the particle accelerator because he felt it would rip a hole in the space time continuum. I believe he thought the odds were 50/50...

    so let's say that there is a 50% chance that man's use of fossil fuels and synthetic chemicals at an ever increasing rate (due to lack of population control) will result in global climate change and catastrophic events... Why not take steps to reduce these things in the environment? For starters if we are in fact destroying the environment then we would slow and perhaps even prevent devastating changes to our planet.. on the other hand if we are not then we are at least preventing loss of resources due to over population.

    Answer me this (and avoiding all of the other chemical concentrations we cause to increase in the environment)... how much CO2 can the plant life on this planet realistically remove from the atmosphere? How large will our population get before the emissions from our daily activities exceed that which can be realistically filtered? Would you call that a man made change on the concentration of breathable air on the planet? How long do you think it will take for mankind to evolve a biological system that performs photosynthesis or the like so that we no longer need to breathe air to survive?

    If that was too complicated for you, then you can imagine that the earth is a petri dish with finite resources and mankind is a bacteria that uses up those resources... After time zero with man's population growth following an exponential growth formula how long before we destroy ourselves and the petri dish? Thus we either limit population and utilize renewable resources or perish.

    No matter how you look at this mankind will have an effect on the environment even if it just comes down to all of the farmland required to feed us and all of the fresh water etc required to remove all of our shit from the environment... what happens when we run out of holes to place this in or lakes to deposit it in? and just in case you're actually thinking it, we don't have the resources or technology to launch it all into space.... renewable energy would also be required to accomplish that or to accomplish colonization of mars the moon etc...

    Thus, we will reach a point when this planet can no longer sustain the population if we stay the course and do nothing... So even if the climate stays the same and all of our leading scientists are just wrong... we will still reach a point in time when we're just out of resources... and when that time approaches and there is no fresh water etc people will have to decide who gets to live and who gets to die... I wonder in a time like that if the civil rights of one individual will even matter in the face of the extinction of mankind...

    I also wonder what the selection criteria for who gets to live will be.. something tells me if it happens in our life time I'll have a much better chance of making it into the "get's to live category" then you will.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    watch where you're driving f$cktards! I have the right of way!!! :steam:

  3. #83
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post

    In other words I really like global warming. Since it is a braking point for the US. Which is because it clearly shows how much your society is flawed.
    Why does this cause you so much pleasure?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Actually humans are quite adaptive, they can thrive almost anywhere in the world as long as outside forces dont screw with them for a net negative.
    Yes you see it everyday babies are born with the ability to breath CO2 in lieu of air and then there are those people that don't need to drink water to live, and those that don't need to eat anymore. It's awesome how adaptive humans are.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    watch where you're driving f$cktards! I have the right of way!!! :steam:

  5. #85
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    See, here's the inherent problem:

    the world is always ending, life has never really been sustainable, you can see that from all the dead civilizations and etc, they had to have died out somehow and it wasn't always from war, you know. So, what happens is that it's only natural people see these as scare tactics.

    However, this is not Christianity, you do not get brownie points for converting the laymen to your cause. You need to focus on bigwigs and push your agenda forcefully to them, to make things green in a way that's here to stay instead of just selling a bunch of paper towels that have a little green sticker on it, which looks damn gimmicky. Understand?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #86
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Why does this cause you so much pleasure?
    Because I am quite a NTJ and I want things settled. In other words becuse of this you will get thing right and that will the dawn of new era or you will fail completly.

    I simply like crossroads in general and I can't help myself.

  7. #87
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Because I am quite a NTJ and I want things settled. In other words becuse of thing you will get thing right and that will the dawn of new era or you will fail completly.

    I simply like crossroads in general and I can't help myself.

    Oh, I thought you enjoyed watching people suffer, in which case there are plenty of other countries I could point you to.

    Anyway, MIT was going to come up with some genetically modified algae that can compete against oil easily. We just have to make sure that the plant doesn't "mysteriously catch fire" overnight. There are plenty of stories of people who come up with water-powered cars, air-powered cars, etc., whose plans get bought by oil companies so that they can destroy them. Or, for the most conspiracy-minded among you, of "green" inventors disappearing all together. It's really fascinating.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #88
    Member Desert's Avatar
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    Could someone please tell me what the optimal global temperature would be?

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    See, here's the inherent problem:

    the world is always ending, life has never really been sustainable, you can see that from all the dead civilizations and etc, they had to have died out somehow and it wasn't always from war, you know. So, what happens is that it's only natural people see these as scare tactics.

    However, this is not Christianity, you do not get brownie points for converting the laymen to your cause. You need to focus on bigwigs and push your agenda forcefully to them, to make things green in a way that's here to stay instead of just selling a bunch of paper towels that have a little green sticker on it, which looks damn gimmicky. Understand?
    No this actually makes no sense, understand? I have no idea who this is addressed to but I'll answer it regardless...

    if the world is always ending and we are planning to just accept this then why not launch the nukes now? What is the point.. what's one more day or another year for that matter in the grand scheme of things when compared to the age of the universe...

    that being said I'm not sure what paper towels with stickers on them have to do with data presented on manmade global climate change... In my case my research involves green chemistry and green science and deals quite a bit with the forefront of this issue...

    Scientists don't have to convert the layman to anything.... you were right about one thing, this is not christianity... and none of us are seeking brownie points.. every scientist I know involved in this issue including myself care only about the distribution of relevant information so that people can make informed decisions free from the political influence and corporate lobbying by those that stand to lose the most (oil companies and other industries) if we start working towards renewable energy resources and more environmentally sound practices...

    If the layman choses to remain ignorant of mankind's effect on this planet then nothing can really be done since politicians make laws not scientists...
    Personally, I know how to construct my own greenhouse, filter my own water, make my own electricity, make my own antibiotics and medications, I'm extremely mechanically inclined etc... and so are most of my colleagues in the sciences...

    I have to say if issues like this are ignored by the layman and in the future things get bad as a result.. people like me will have a much easier time "adapting" to the changes than the layman, and something tells me that we wont be feeling much like sharing..

    edit: there is a difference between presenting evidence and fear mongering...
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    watch where you're driving f$cktards! I have the right of way!!! :steam:

  10. #90
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    See, here's the inherent problem:

    the world is always ending, life has never really been sustainable, you can see that from all the dead civilizations and etc, they had to have died out somehow and it wasn't always from war, you know. So, what happens is that it's only natural people see these as scare tactics.

    However, this is not Christianity, you do not get brownie points for converting the laymen to your cause. You need to focus on bigwigs and push your agenda forcefully to them, to make things green in a way that's here to stay instead of just selling a bunch of paper towels that have a little green sticker on it, which looks damn gimmicky. Understand?

    Well this is exactly what I was saying i my post. There is no scientific reason to bring "the end of the world" into this. Since the world will be here and proably same will be for mankind. However the world will be one very different place since human population will be reduced greatly, social models will change greatly, majority of species will go extinct and landscaps will change.

    Now the only question is: should we wipe out majority of living beings from this planet if we don't have to ?

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