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  1. #61
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    Yes you're right. You can make assertions and claims without having to demonstrate knowing anything about the subject! Why should your knowledge of the subject have anything to do with anything?
    Gee its almost like we're on some little MBTI web forum somewhere. I forgot that I was on the UN panel and had to have my credentials checked for all the people who cant see the big picture at the door.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  2. #62
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Gee its almost like we're on some little MBTI web forum somewhere. I forgot that I was on the UN panel and had to have my credentials checked for all the people who cant see the big picture at the door.
    Red herring, appeal to ridicule, bare assertion. In that order.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  3. #63
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    are you using your Ti in this argument? (bwa ha ha... I can make it MBTI forum relevant!!!)

    What is the point of your argument here? that the popular opinions on the issues you've heard seem silly to you? And what was the argument stated before you posted? Was it something more technical from the view of someone who has worked with the data in question and the studies? Maybe we should think about this for a moment... is someone arguing against facts with emotions?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #64
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    no it's not... if you want to make a valid judgement on an issue going to the source is the most fair way to do so... you learn THAT writing research papers
    I guess I just disagree on your scientific popularity contest, I don't believe truth is by consensus. I actually find it quite appaulling that such a young species like humans can even pretend they have real meaningful control on such a massive and complex system such as climate.

    1st of all...

    Climate isn't static, it changes and always will change, the earth has been both hotter AND cooler then today by wide margins. And it was doing that since before fossil fuels. Our species survived a frickin Ice age.

    2nd. We can even plug a hole in the gulf with al the kings men and all the kings horses, theres fortune, fame and a nobel peace prize for anyone who can solve that little problem and yet the Gulf States are caked in Oil, our technology while impressive, is actually quite feeble.

    To see someone who has lived less then a few hundred years tell me about weather patterns, I dunno there is just something so deliciously ridiculous about it...

    the entire global warming thing, its just a bad dream that wont go away because people are more interested in being self righteous assholes then actually tacking REAL problems like global starvation.

    Heres a clue people, read a little Carl Sagan up

    Humans are NOT going to stop growing in numbers, we SHOULDN'T stop growing in numbers, we are rare and unique and beautiful, we need to start figuring out how to REALLY colonize the moon and mars. Begin to spread our species out. We don't need to stop obeying basic biological functions, we need more room. And there is PLENTY of room in the galaxy.

    I personally would like to see humans become a dual planetary species before I die. Or at least start the early steps of it.

    The only other option is to destroy freedom.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  5. #65
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    Red herring, appeal to ridicule, bare assertion. In that order.
    You should be a broadcaster if you dont plan on talking much but relaying the replays. Just saying.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Premise 1. Global warming (or whatever you want to call it) is happening.
    Premise 2. We are causing it.

    The second premise becomes internally inconsistent when I read this:

    .

    Not to mention the list of other causes. Nice article. Not contrived at all.
    Sigh... actually understanding what you're talking about prior to forming an opinion or commenting tends to produce the best results imho.. Of course that's just the way I roll.. who am I to tell you how you should be....

    Still in the hopes that someone else might actually want to interpret evidence for the sake of finding truth and not for the purpose of pushing agendas - here is the complete picture of what we know about aerosols and global warming.. if anyone actually wants to learn more about the science behind this feel free to PM me.

    "Charlson and colleagues have shown that the cooling effect of sulfate aerosols does not neatly cancel out the effects of greenhouse warming, but rather, makes the situation more complex. "Aerosol cooling and the greenhouse effect have characteristics that prevent them from neatly offsetting each other," note Charlson and colleague Tom Wigley, who heads the Office for Interdisciplinary Earth Studies at the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado." - Sulfate Aerosol and Global Warming

    and this

    "There are many uncertainties in the current study. The major sources of uncertainty are the following:

    The fidelity of climate models, particularly in representing the magnitude of cloud feedbacks, which have been discussed elsewhere (e.g., Houghton et al. 1990, 1992; Senior and Mitchell 1993).

    The aerosol scenarios, including future energy production, and the fuels used. The scenario used gives a threefold increase in sulfate concentrations over southeast Asia —this would lead to severe problems with acid rain. It is possible that the removal of sulfur from emissions will become more widespread, preventing such high levels from being attained.

    The derivation of the distribution and radiative properties of sulfate aerosols given an emissions scenario—the forcing derived here is about 50% greater than more detailed radiative calculations (e.g., Kiehl and Briegleb 1993).

    Other forcing factors not taken into consideration here. These include the indirect effect of sulfate aerosols as well as changes in soot, biogenic aerosols, and tropospheric ozone, which could, for example, reduce the net cooling over land or give smoother patterns that would result in a less dramatic effect on the land–sea contrast than found here. The projection of these additional factors into the future is even less certain than that of the direct effect of sulfates.

    The implication of our findings is that some of the changes in hydrology predicted to occur with increases in greenhouse gases may be less extreme in the short- and medium-term future (several decades). This situation may not prevail in the longer term—sulfate concentrations will be maintained only as long as sulfur emissions continue, whereas CO2 has a lifetime of a century or so, ensuring that concentrations will remain high for many decades to come." - An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    watch where you're driving f$cktards! I have the right of way!!! :steam:

  7. #67
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    I guess I just disagree on your scientific popularity contest, I don't believe truth is by consensus. I actually find it quite appaulling that such a young species like humans can even pretend they have real meaningful control on such a massive and complex system such as climate.

    1st of all...

    Climate isn't static, it changes and always will change, the earth has been both hotter AND cooler then today by wide margins. And it was doing that since before fossil fuels. Our species survived a frickin Ice age.

    2nd. We can even plug a hole in the gulf with al the kings men and all the kings horses, theres fortune, fame and a nobel peace prize for anyone who can solve that little problem and yet the Gulf States are caked in Oil, our technology while impressive, is actually quite feeble.

    To see someone who has lived less then a few hundred years tell me about weather patterns, I dunno there is just something so deliciously ridiculous about it...

    the entire global warming thing, its just a bad dream that wont go away because people are more interested in being self righteous assholes then actually tacking REAL problems like global starvation.

    Heres a clue people, read a little Carl Sagan up

    Humans are NOT going to stop growing in numbers, we SHOULDN'T stop growing in numbers, we are rare and unique and beautiful, we need to start figuring out how to REALLY colonize the moon and mars. Begin to spread our species out. We don't need to stop obeying basic biological functions, we need more room. And there is PLENTY of room in the galaxy.

    I personally would like to see humans become a dual planetary species before I die. Or at least start the early steps of it.

    The only other option is to destroy freedom.
    Another red herring, another bare assertion, yet another red herring, another bare assertion, cherry picking, appeal to authority, a grand sweeping red herring, and a false dilemma to top it off. In that order.
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    You should be a broadcaster if you dont plan on talking much but relaying the replays. Just saying.
    Ad hominem.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  8. #68
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    are you using your Ti in this argument? (bwa ha ha... I can make it MBTI forum relevant!!!)

    What is the point of your argument here? that the popular opinions on the issues you've heard seem silly to you? And what was the argument stated before you posted? Was it something more technical from the view of someone who has worked with the data in question and the studies? Maybe we should think about this for a moment... is someone arguing against facts with emotions?
    Whats silly to me is that humans somehow control the climate. That I have been hearing about global catastrophe since 3rd grade its been 20 years... lets get on with it for christs sake I want to see some fire and world extinction! Im all amped up for it now.


    All the "evidence? I have seen you guys spew is circumstantial, and lame at best. That somehow you think the world will end if we gain a few degrees is nuts to me, as the ice melts away theyre finding viking settlements under it ha ha ha.... obviously things were warmer before then now.

    The only people I see in this case who argue with emotions tend to be the Pro MMGW types. This entire argument is a demonstration of verbal masterbation.

    You keep trying to claim the side of science, but its like you're just going after me, and fox news, and rush limbaugh without really offering any real meaningful data. Why would I rush to the spreadsheets for empirical evidence when you would just ignore it anyway and tell me it comes from some "biased" source that you don't like. If you guys are keen into logical fallacies check out Guilt by Association.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  9. #69
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    Another red herring, another bare assertion, yet another red herring, another bare assertion, cherry picking, appeal to authority, and a grand sweeping red herring, and a false dilemma to top it off. In that order.


    Ad hominem.
    I think they should invent a logical fallacy for then idiots on the web who do nothing but go to that stupid website and look for logical fallacy lables to sling.

    We can call it the "ardent avoider" or maybe "the hide behind mamas skirt defense"
    Ground control to Major Tom

  10. #70
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    I think they should invent a logical fallacy for then idiots on the web who do nothing but go to that stupid website and look for logical fallacy lables to sling.

    We can call it the "ardent avoider" or maybe "the hide behind mamas skirt defense"
    More Ad Hominem. You're pretty good at this, or bad at it, depending on how one views that kind of thing.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

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