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  1. #31
    Oberon
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    The credibility of scientists comes from two working premises:

    1. They are bright people who do conscientious work to learn stuff, and
    2. They're honest about what they find, and demonstrate their honesty by being transparent about their work.

    If they can't do the above, they might as well shut up 'cuz nobody's buying it. We've already heard it all from the politicians. In other words, in the arena of science, scientists have the standing to speak with some authority. In the arena of politics, they're just another braying voice.

  2. #32
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    However, some scientific discoveries have inescapably political implications.

    Those who do not like those political implications seem to be happy to ignore the science.

    In these cases, scientists are put in a no-win situation. The truth itself makes them too political for their opponents.

    EDIT: It's kind of like the age of Catholic domination.
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  3. #33
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Most of the world.

    But not every single region.
    Where are the temperatures being measured? In cities, heat tends to be retained by concrete, pavement, and the reflections of the buildings - not to mention the green house effect that becomes compartmentalized within civilization itself. Ever since the beginning industrial revolution, we have made these measurements, but the industrial revolution was the cause of CO2 emissions in the first place. So we measure our deficiencies with the same tools that render us deficient. In order to purge ourselves, we have to incite a whole new revolution of using the appropriate resources, rather than using harmful and finite fossil fuels. (yeah I know, everything is finite, but some natural resources are more resilient and regenerative than others).

    We need to undo the entire system of human production at the root, but as long as we're still under the sun, I don't think that's happening any time soon.

  4. #34
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    Where are the temperatures being measured? In cities, heat tends to be retained by concrete, pavement, and the reflections of the buildings - not to mention the green house effect that becomes compartmentalized within civilization itself. Ever since the beginning industrial revolution, we have made these measurements, but the industrial revolution was the cause of CO2 emissions in the first place. So we measure our deficiencies with the same tools that render us deficient. In order to purge ourselves, we have to incite a whole new revolution of using the appropriate resources, rather than using harmful and finite fossil fuels. (yeah I know, everything is finite, but some natural resources are more resilient and regenerative than others).

    We need to undo the entire system of human production at the root, but as long as we're still under the sun, I don't think that's happening any time soon.
    NASA - 2009: Second Warmest Year on Record; End of Warmest Decade

  5. #35
    Ginkgo
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    Premise 1. Global warming (or whatever you want to call it) is happening.
    Premise 2. We are causing it.

    The second premise becomes internally inconsistent when I read this:

    Meanwhile, other types of aerosols, often produced by burning fossil fuels, can change surface temperatures by either reflecting or absorbing incoming sunlight. Hansenís group estimates that aerosols probably counteract about half of the warming produced by man-made greenhouse gases, but he cautions that better measurements of these elusive particles are needed.
    .

    Not to mention the list of other causes. Nice article. Not contrived at all.

  6. #36
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    Premise 1. Global warming (or whatever you want to call it) is happening.
    Premise 2. We are causing it.

    The second premise becomes internally inconsistent when I read this:

    .

    Not to mention the list of other causes. Nice article. Not contrived at all.
    If only the other side had more serious scientific backing.

  7. #37
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    If only the other side had more serious scientific backing.
    I don't think "serious" is the right word. It's more like determining what causes global warming is like determining what initially caused the death of a civil war soldier who's body was vaporized by converging barrages of bullets at Gettysburg.

    Then after that, you have to ask yourself if you can even undo the damage, or prevent the interdependent relationships in nature. We're like a bunch of apes trying to board up the canopy of the rain forest just to have it rain sideways.

    But what exactly does the warming entail?

    Already, we're consuming inordinate quantities of fish in some areas of the world; and once they are depleted, competition will ensue.

    The earth's carrying capacity is rapidly being approached, but we manage to inflate it by artificially cultivating crops and livestock. It's getting worse, and you can see it happening in the food industry.

    Oh my Buddha I'm becoming a fear monger!!!

  8. #38
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    I blame this on the fact that we've had more snow/cold weather these past 2 winters than we normally experience. I live in the south, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard, in response to 3 inches of snow accumulation, "Well I guess this means global warming is over." (?!!@!@#!1!)

    Most people simply fail to recognize the difference between weather and climate. A little snow in the U.S. doesn't negate the millenium's worth of evidence we've found in the ice cores and the data that has been collected on the atmosphere/climate for the past ~50-100 years. Bah.

  9. #39
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Fuck, it's cold! Keep polluting, that'll keep us warm!
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #40
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    I blame this on the fact that we've had more snow/cold weather these past 2 winters than we normally experience. I live in the south, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard, in response to 3 inches of snow accumulation, "Well I guess this means global warming is over." (?!!@!@#!1!)

    Most people simply fail to recognize the difference between weather and climate. A little snow in the U.S. doesn't negate the millenium's worth of evidence we've found in the ice cores and the data that has been collected on the atmosphere/climate for the past ~50-100 years. Bah.
    I wonder why.





    Fox News Dumber than Ever: Denies Global Warming due to Snow

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