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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert View Post
    My are you really such an intellectual dodo.
    One thing I really dislike is a hypocrite and the above statement looks like a personal attack to me.. Seems like somebody might want to practice what they preach if they wish to be taken seriously..

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert View Post
    I know more than enough about the arguments for and against global warming. But it seems to me that snobs like you seem to for get that you do not convince people of anything if you attack their person. Because your narrow mindedness seems to forget that in order to bring about the change you so desperately want to see you first need to know how to communicate it properly. That is why I stated that my money was on Antisocial one because he/she actually took the time to explain to someone perceived as not knowing and could actually communicate better. Fact and figures don't mean squat if you can't get it across in the right way.
    Look it's really not my problem if you don't like the way I respond to people who have no intention of actually learning something. Your only goal on this thread is to provoke... you are not looking to debate the science or even understand it. This is obvious from the loaded question that you asked even after attempts were made to explain to you why no exact numbers can be provided... If you can't understand that the earth is not a static system then you have no business participating in this debate.. One can only conclude that you continue to do so for the sake of argument and nothing else... I personally don't have much respect for people that engage in that behavior...

    Let's test this theory shall we? I'll restate the condensed version of what I've been saying and we'll see if you actually discuss any of it in a meaningful way...

    I should also note that by meaningful I mean void of loaded questions designed to provoke and derail... since your previous "questions in this thread" have been the equivalent of a 4th grader proclaiming that algebra must be false since nobody can define what X is with an exact number even though the formula has been stated accurately and one need only plug in the numbers to solve...

    So here it goes.. the condensed version of what I've been saying:

    mankind is having an effect on the environment...

    CO2 is just one aspect of the very large problem which is global pollution and it's adverse effects. Sequestering of CO2 is really the only viable option...

    We cannot simply convert CO2 into oxygen via planting a bunch of trees.. Trees are not ideal for the storage of CO2.. Not at this stage in the game since the goal is to take excess CO2 and remove it from the atmosphere thus anything that will result in rereleasing that CO2 back into the atmosphere will not work... True trees will make oxygen from the CO2 but there is also a carbon atom in every molecule of CO2 and matter cannot be created or destroyed... so that carbon atom has to be converted into something else as well since carbon from CO2 will not just be floating around in singlet form.. Thus we will have a crap ton of plant material or likely some other hydrocarbon if we develop a magical synthetic process..

    Moreover the solution to our CO2 problem is not converting all CO2 emissions and excess CO2 into oxygen as the equilibrium will not support this either... Efforts should be focused on maintaing a stable equilibrium of the gasses naturally occurring in the atmosphere not shifting back and forth between random extremes in concentrations on either side...

    So we are left with sequestering CO2 as the only real viable option, but it's not much of an option since it's expensive and many of the technologies to do this are in their infancy... thus we need more funding to conduct more research... the problem remains complex.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    watch where you're driving f$cktards! I have the right of way!!! :steam:

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's too bad that this branch of science has become so politicized. Discussions of physics rarely evoke reactions like this. Though, I suppose some people could find it funny that climate science is so complex that some scientists have abandoned the scientific method.
    By your logic we should abandon all testing before presenting products to humans or maybe we should "volunteer" death row inmates for human trials since we couldn't possibly learn anything from animal testing or models. Furthermore if physicists were forced to put into real life practice every theory that they have physics would no longer exist as a science... no matter how many models etc we use we will never be able to recreate the big bang on the same scale - thus by your logic all physics related to this and other theories is well "retarded".... good luck making sense of that one.

    edit: this debate has for awhile now degenerated into nonsense.. if anyone wants to actually debate the science in any of my posts then I will respond otherwise feel free to argue amongst yourselves about the fear of death, man causing sun spots, magic adaptable humans, earth sized models to prove theories about manmade climate change, etc... at least it will be entertaining for me to watch... but any contribution I could make to arguments as ridiculous as that would be the equivalent of gibberish...

    so you can insert the following for all future replies to nonsense like what has recently been vomited all over this thread...

    Spin-1/2-nuclei's official response to stupid posts: akjghakrghakrjrghaekrjgakrjhgablekrjghalekrjghbaer kjhgbaerkjgbalerkjgbalerjgbaelrgbaekrjgbaekrgbaerk jgabergjhabergbaerghaerghaerhgaerghaerjghbaerghabe ;rghabher;ghbaergaerghaer.

    *disclaimer: please feel free to insert whatever emoticon is appropriate to the context of your post.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    watch where you're driving f$cktards! I have the right of way!!! :steam:

  3. #203
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's too bad that this branch of science has become so politicized. Discussions of physics rarely evoke reactions like this. Though, I suppose some people could find it funny that climate science is so complex that some scientists have abandoned the scientific method.
    Climate science threatens trillion-dollar industries. The thing is, the captains of trillion-dollar industries don't understand physics enough to realize that pure physics research does exactly the same, and at an even more fundamental level than climate science.

  4. #204
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Climate science threatens trillion-dollar industries. The thing is, the captains of trillion-dollar industries don't understand physics enough to realize that pure physics research does exactly the same, and at an even more fundamental level than climate science.
    Physicists ultimately test their predictions in the real world.

    Tests of general relativity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    LHC_Homepage

    It is not possible to test climate predictions in this way (because we don't have a duplicate Earth). A climate model doesn't even qualify as a poor substitute. Also, no one is suggesting that we fundamentally alter our economy based on any unproven predictions of string theory.

    In my opinion, physics one-ups climate science in both of those respects.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #205
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spin-1/2-nuclei View Post
    By your logic we should abandon all testing before presenting products to humans or maybe we should "volunteer" death row inmates for human trials since we couldn't possibly learn anything from animal testing or models. Furthermore if physicists were forced to put into real life practice every theory that they have physics would no longer exist as a science... no matter how many models etc we use we will never be able to recreate the big bang on the same scale - thus by your logic all physics related to this and other theories is well "retarded".... good luck making sense of that one.
    Actually, my fiance (med school student) and I were discussing something along these lines (regarding medical testing) earlier today. I expressed my displeasure with the "shortcuts" medical science takes with respect to their studies. My objections were purely intellectual, of course, because medical science has economic considerations. It's not economically viable to run what I would call a "perfect study".

    It's possible that we'll never fully understand the Big Bang and we'll probably never discover any empirical evidence of it. However, no one is proposing fundamentally altering our economy based on it, either. Huge difference.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Physicists ultimately test their predictions in the real world.

    Tests of general relativity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    LHC_Homepage

    It is not possible to test climate predictions in this way (because we don't have a duplicate Earth). A climate model doesn't even qualify as a poor substitute. Also, no one is suggesting that we fundamentally alter our economy based on any unproven predictions of string theory.

    In my opinion, physics one-ups climate science in both of those respects.
    Climate science is politicized because the oil industry could be seriously harmed by measures taken to mitigate climate change.

  7. #207
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Climate science is politicized because the oil industry could be seriously harmed by measures taken to mitigate climate change.
    That is not why it is politicized. It's politicized because some people want to use the findings of climate scientists to change public policy. The fact that the oil industry could be harmed is an effect, not a cause.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That is not why it is politicized. It's politicized because some people want to use the findings of climate scientists to change public policy. The fact that the oil industry could be harmed is an effect, not a cause.
    Which is the same for every scientific endeavor. Usually, these stay quiet and behind the scenes. The reason it is publicly politicized to the level that it is stems from its threat to a very large, very lucrative industry.

  9. #209
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Which is the same for every scientific endeavor. Usually, these stay quiet and behind the scenes. The reason it is publicly politicized to the level that it is stems from its threat to a very large, very lucrative industry.
    You are confusing politicization with drama.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #210
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That is not why it is politicized. It's politicized because some people want to use the findings of climate scientists to change public policy. The fact that the oil industry could be harmed is an effect, not a cause.
    There is hardly one reason. Certainly lucrative businesses that feel threatened by environmental protections policies are involved in influencing the course of climate awareness in our society.

    And of course people want to use the findings on our climate to change public policy. It would be crazy not to. It would be like not pressing the government to do anything about the discovery of a giant meteor headed straight for earth.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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