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  1. #31
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    How are they different quantitatively? explain.
    15,000 soviet soldiers were killed in Afganistan as a consequence of the C.I.A's involvement, which they fully intended.

    According to the author of the newly released Charlie Wilson's War, the exception to CIA incompetence was the arming between 1979 and 1988 of thousands of Afghan moujahedeen ("freedom fighters"). The agency flooded Afghanistan with an astonishing array of extremely dangerous weapons and "unapologetically mov[ed] to equip and train cadres of high tech holy warriors in the art of waging a war of urban terror against a modern superpower," in this case, the USSR.

    The author of this glowing account, George Crile, is a veteran producer for the CBS television news show "60 Minutes" and an exuberant Tom Clancy-type enthusiast for the Afghan caper. He argues that the U.S. clandestine involvement in Afghanistan was "the largest and most successful CIA operation in history" and "the one morally unambiguous crusade of our time." He adds that "there was nothing so romantic and exciting as this war against the Evil Empire." Crile's sole measure of success is the number of Soviet soldiers killed (about 15,000), which undermined Soviet morale and contributed to the disintegration of the Soviet Union in the period from 1989 to 1991. That's the successful part.

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    The Largest Covert Operation in CIA History
    Good points.

  2. #32
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    How are they different quantitatively?
    I'm talking about the number of conspirators and "moving parts," not the number of people killed. I'm also talking about the diversity (in terms of loyalties, organization, and hierarchy) of said moving parts, the institutional structures (totalitarian, anarchic, democratic, centralized, federal, etc) in which a conspiracy is carried out, as well as the risks and consequences of exposure. Giving money and weapons to foreign guerillas in an anarchic environment is not even remotely as complicated or risky as attempting to gain domestic power through an intricate "false flag" operation against one's own country, all while keeping it secret (both during and especially after the fact) from intense media scrutiny.

    Incidentally, I think arming the Afghans was a great idea; don't mistake "blowback" for policy failure. (The Iranian coup, on the other hand, was a fuck-up).

  3. #33
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I'm talking about the number of conspirators and "moving parts," not the number of people killed. I'm also talking about the diversity (in terms of loyalties, organization, and hierarchy) of said moving parts, the institutional structures (totalitarian, anarchic, democratic, centralized, federal, etc) in which a conspiracy is carried out, as well as the risks and consequences of exposure. Giving money and weapons to foreign guerillas in an anarchic environment is not even remotely as complicated or risky as attempting to gain domestic power through an intricate "false flag" operation against one's own country, all while keeping it secret (both during and especially after the fact) from intense media scrutiny.

    Incidentally, I think arming the Afghans was a great idea; don't mistake "blowback" for policy failure. (The Iranian coup, on the other hand, was a fuck-up).
    I no longer wish to discuss with you, you have no idea what you are talking about.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  4. #34
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Err, the difference is not scale and number of people killed, it's the difference between nuking Wyoming to all Hell and the end of the Watchmen comic.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #35
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    I no longer wish to discuss with you, you have no idea what you are talking about.

  6. #36
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    How are they different quantitatively? explain.
    15,000 soviet soldiers were killed in Afganistan as a consequence of the C.I.A's involvement, which they fully intended.

    According to the author of the newly released Charlie Wilson's War, the exception to CIA incompetence was the arming between 1979 and 1988 of thousands of Afghan moujahedeen ("freedom fighters"). The agency flooded Afghanistan with an astonishing array of extremely dangerous weapons and "unapologetically mov[ed] to equip and train cadres of high tech holy warriors in the art of waging a war of urban terror against a modern superpower," in this case, the USSR.

    The author of this glowing account, George Crile, is a veteran producer for the CBS television news show "60 Minutes" and an exuberant Tom Clancy-type enthusiast for the Afghan caper. He argues that the U.S. clandestine involvement in Afghanistan was "the largest and most successful CIA operation in history" and "the one morally unambiguous crusade of our time." He adds that "there was nothing so romantic and exciting as this war against the Evil Empire." Crile's sole measure of success is the number of Soviet soldiers killed (about 15,000), which undermined Soviet morale and contributed to the disintegration of the Soviet Union in the period from 1989 to 1991. That's the successful part.

    from this source
    The Largest Covert Operation in CIA History
    You are comparing the training of guerrillas to fight one's enemies with a supposed suicidal attack against one's own country?



    I can totally see you as a detective...

    Victim: A mugger attacked me on the street with a knife
    You: (opens the folder): I see here that you once chased a burglar away with a shotgun, is that correct?
    Victim: ...ummm, yes.
    You: You stabbed yourself, didn't you?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  7. #37
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    You are comparing the training of guerrillas to fight one's enemies with a supposed suicidal attack against one's own country?



    I can totally see you as a detective...

    Victim: A mugger attacked me on the street with a knife
    You: (opens the folder): I see here that you once chased a burglar away with a shotgun, is that correct?
    Victim: ...ummm, yes.
    You: You stabbed yourself, didn't you?

    No, i was trying to compare magnitude as not defined by someone when specifically asked. I used an example of a C.I.A covert operation in which many thousand died.
    Sarcasm=lowest form of wit. Not funny.
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  8. #38
    Member Sam Spade's Avatar
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    @ Gem

    You are an absolute moron.

    Exhibit A

    Exhibit B

    I ask you this: Do you believe in Reptoids too? Because they'll snatch you right off the back of a muthafucka
    "Knights had no meaning in this game. It wasn't a game for knights."

  9. #39
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
    @ Gem

    You are an absolute moron.

    Exhibit A

    Exhibit B

    I ask you this: Do you believe in Reptoids too? Because they'll snatch you right off the back of a muthafucka
    And coming into a thread hurling insults by way of cartoons is what? Clever?
    Computer says no.
    Gosh there seems to be a lot of people who are not actually willing to share their views but are very willing to be rude.
    Would you care to contribute to this topic, i'm sure you have a lot to say on it since you proclaim to get on better with highly intelligent people.
    So ummm.....proceed
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  10. #40
    Member Sam Spade's Avatar
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    It's cleverer than believing in 9/11 "Truth" at the expense of all logic. Your mind says yes but rationality says no.

    Let's see...I can take the word of thousands of engineers and scientists...or a raving college kid with a copy of Windows Movie Maker plus thousands of his braindead followers. Yeah...

    And by the way, 9/11 Truthers are as dumb as those who believe in Reptoids and the Illuminati conspiracy. If you subscribe to an idiotic belief, people are going to question your intelligence. Get used to it.
    "Knights had no meaning in this game. It wasn't a game for knights."

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