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  1. #41
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    What is silly? I haven't told anyone to do a thing; I've only described how Catholicism views sex.
    No, you've superimposed your interpretation of how Catholicism views sex onto what the Catholic church actually says about it. Nowhere in that whatever it was that you quoted did it imply that guilt has any place in married sexuality. Quite the opposite, in fact.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  2. #42
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    I don't see what the big deal is. If I was a part of an occultist religion operating as a monotheist Christian church I would probably screw little boys and man-prostitutes too. Give them a break, it's not like they're Popes.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  3. #43
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    No, you've superimposed your interpretation of how Catholicism views sex onto what the Catholic church actually says about it. Nowhere in that whatever it was that you quoted did it imply that guilt has any place in married sexuality. Quite the opposite, in fact.
    Where did I say that the Humanae Vitae implies guilt in married sexuality? I didn't, Ivy, and I would be foolish if I tried to, because that document paints as pleasant a picture of sex as Catholic doctrine will allow it to. No, it's what isn't said or even implied that's important here. There's a deafening silence that surrounds every Catholic teaching on the subject of sex, and everyone can hear it loud and clear. It isn't some sort of coincidence that so many people, including many Catholics, have the impression that there's something dirty about sex.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  4. #44
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    Where did I say that the Humanae Vitae implies guilt in married sexuality?
    Right here, Nunki:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    On the one hand, the Vatican places tremendous guilt on one of the most loving and pleasurable activities any human can engage in--apparently you're even supposed to think of God while you have sex: to do it for the sheer joy of it would be sinful.* And on the other hand, the Vatican has a policy that in order to enter its ranks, you must be celibate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I stopped reading at this point.

    The reason being that as a practicing Roman Catholic of thirty years I have NEVER heard this from ANY of the hierarchy, let alone the Vatican.

    The church does not share the popular infatuation and obsession with sex, which is unremarkable for a spiritually focused institution but perhaps so, so bizarre to contemporary norms and morals that this position has to be subject to vitriolic misrepresentation and critcism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    Really? You're not familiar with Pope Paul VI's Humanae Vitae, in which he addressed "HIS VENERABLE BROTHERS THE PATRIARCHS, ARCHBISHOPS, BISHOPS AND OTHER LOCAL ORDINARIES IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE TO THE CLERGY AND FAITHFUL OF THE WHOLE CATHOLIC WORLD, AND TO ALL MEN OF GOOD WILL, ON THE REGULATION OF BIRTH?" Well, I shall enlighten you, then:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    I didn't, Ivy, and I would be foolish if I tried to, because that document paints as pleasant a picture of sex as Catholic doctrine will allow it to.
    You did, but now that it's been pointed out that what you posted as proof of your assertion doesn't prove it at all, you're backpedaling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    No, it's what isn't said or even implied that's important here. There's a deafening silence that surrounds every Catholic teaching on the subject of sex, and everyone can hear it loud and clear. It isn't some sort of coincidence that so many people, including many Catholics, have the impression that there's something dirty about sex.
    It's probably the 19827897 other Catholic teachings that are clear about unmarried or gay sex being wrong that does that, not the handful of teachings that talk about married sex. IMO, the description of married sex you posted IS joyful and beautiful. It just ought to be available to teh gays as well.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  5. #45
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Right here, Nunki:
    I never even mentioned the Humanae Vitae until one or two posts after I wrote that. In the post you're quoting, I described the Vatican's "deafening silence" on the subject of sex--in other words, the unspoken (if we can even claim that) implications of Catholic doctrine, whether that doctrine be in the Humanae Vitae or your local priesthood.

    You did, but now that it's been pointed out that what you posted as proof of your assertion doesn't prove it at all, you're backpedaling.
    I think you may have misunderstood me, Ivy. I'm not backpedaling on anything, at least not right now. If you think I am, I would love to see what you have in mind so that I can set the record straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy
    It's probably the 19827897 other Catholic teachings that are clear about unmarried or gay sex being wrong that does that, not the handful of teachings that talk about married sex. IMO, the description of married sex you posted IS joyful and beautiful. It just ought to be available to teh gays as well.
    Certainly these things don't vouch for a positive attitude toward sex, but they weren't exactly what I had in mind when I wrote that. As I described in my first post in this topic, belief in a transcendent, omnipresent god whom you must love while at the same time remaining inferior to is inherently contrary to human sexuality. Even more than Christianity's hatred of the worldly and fleshly, this is the reason the Church always has been so repressive of sex: sexuality attacks Christianity right at its heart.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  6. #46
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Icy? Is that a typo or an insult?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #47
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Icy? Is that a typo or an insult?
    How is being icy an insult? Ice cream is icy, and that's half of what makes it so good. But yes, that was obviously a typo. The C and V keys are right next to each other, and spell check doesn't catch "icy."
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  8. #48
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    You know, frigid, icy...
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #49
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    10,000! What better way than to celebrate than with a ban!

  10. #50
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    As I described in my first post in this topic, belief in a transcendent, omnipresent god whom you must love while at the same time remaining inferior to is inherently contrary to human sexuality.
    How so? Its inherently separate from human sexuality, but not inherently contrary to the same.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 03-07-2010 at 03:54 PM. Reason: more to add

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