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  1. #21
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    If you're going to complain about the sex you've got to complain about illegal music filesharing. The filesharing does have a cost (internet connection, computer, time), but none of these costs go to the artist. I mean, one could also say that the copyright on this music is uncapitalistic because it gives one artist and the recording company a monopoly on the music.

    Since when is monopoly uncapitalistic?

    Competition leads to centralization of profit and wealth which leads to de facto monopolies in all the major economic sectors.

    Likewise with many things like land, natural resources, etc., you cannot seperate property rights from monopoly, as these are limited and naturally occurring.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Since when is monopoly uncapitalistic?
    They are not capitalistic when they exist only because of government (like the government monopoly on currency production).

    Competition leads to centralization of profit and wealth which leads to de facto monopolies in all the major economic sectors.
    This is not true. Competition leads to all sorts of different things. It could lead to centralization (see Microsoft), but that is not always the case (see retail clothing outlets for an example).

    Likewise with many things like land, natural resources, etc., you cannot seperate property rights from monopoly, as these are limited and naturally occurring.
    I don't understand what you're trying to say with this statement.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #23
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    They are not capitalistic when they exist only because of government (like the government monopoly on currency production).
    Well capitalism is a social and economic system, and everywhere depends on state fudning of infrastructure to a greater or lesser degree. So I owuld say govt. monopolies ins ome sectors are an integral part of capitalism, because there are areas which aren;'t profitable or secure to invest in, but which the capitalistss a whole need.

    This is not true. Competition leads to all sorts of different things. It could lead to centralization (see Microsoft), but that is not always the case (see retail clothing outlets for an example).
    As a system, historically, it has led, and is still leading, to ever greater concentration of wealth and market share by the strongest "oligopolies" (for the sake of argument I'll call them that).
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Well capitalism is a social and economic system, and everywhere depends on state fudning of infrastructure to a greater or lesser degree. So I owuld say govt. monopolies ins ome sectors are an integral part of capitalism, because there are areas which aren;'t profitable or secure to invest in, but which the capitalistss a whole need.
    Is this a retraction of your previous statement?

    As a system, historically, it has led, and is still leading, to ever greater concentration of wealth and market share by the strongest "oligopolies" (for the sake of argument I'll call them that).
    This is simply not true. Competition works against consolidation because it promotes innovation, to gain an edge over the competition to avoid losing their share of the market. Large businesses hate competition because once they reach a certain size (or market share) it becomes more expensive to innovate than to game the system (bribing government officials, etc).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #25
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    What? No one has trademarked them???
    Horrors!
    You capitalist types are slipping on the job!!!
    Or banana peel.
    Or something.



    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The only things that don't cost anyone anything are sunlight and oxygen.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    If you're going to complain about the sex you've got to complain about illegal music filesharing. The filesharing does have a cost (internet connection, computer, time), but none of these costs go to the artist. I mean, one could also say that the copyright on this music is uncapitalistic because it gives one artist and the recording company a monopoly on the music.
    Well, this actually falls under yet a third category. This is a crime.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #27
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Is this a retraction of your previous statement?
    How could you possibly read it as a retraction? :s It was a reconfirmation.

    This is simply not true. Competition works against consolidation because it promotes innovation, to gain an edge over the competition to avoid losing their share of the market. Large businesses hate competition because once they reach a certain size (or market share) it becomes more expensive to innovate than to game the system (bribing government officials, etc
    )

    Obviously the more resources you have the more you can reinvest in improving your productivity and in innovation. Shall we look up who spends more on research, large corporations or small businesses.?

    In any case historically we can see hwo capitalism has gone from being a system of many small to capitalists, to ever smaller numbers of large capitalists. In every crisis this processes reaffirms itself, as we see int hsi current global financial crisis where certain megabanks are taking advantage of the chaos to swallow up their competitors.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #28
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    In any case historically we can see hwo capitalism has gone from being a system of many small to capitalists, to ever smaller numbers of large capitalists. In every crisis this processes reaffirms itself, as we see int hsi current global financial crisis where certain megabanks are taking advantage of the chaos to swallow up their competitors.
    Absolutely. The problem is that anti-regulation folks actually believe this pattern is only possible with the presence of the government. I think that's preposterous, and in fact the only way to fight that pattern is with the government. That, as I seem to recall, is basically where the argument (in general out of many arguments) ended for me, and for some reason it never moved beyond that point.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #29
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Where is tap water free?
    Lots of places. I live outside of the city limits, and every house and business around me has its own well.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  10. #30
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    How could you possibly read it as a retraction? :s It was a reconfirmation.
    That's strange because your statement didn't actually reconfirm your previous statement.

    Obviously the more resources you have the more you can reinvest in improving your productivity and in innovation. Shall we look up who spends more on research, large corporations or small businesses.?
    As a percentage of expenditures small businesses do, and it's not close. Innovation is not limited to "research".

    In any case historically we can see hwo capitalism has gone from being a system of many small to capitalists, to ever smaller numbers of large capitalists. In every crisis this processes reaffirms itself, as we see int hsi current global financial crisis where certain megabanks are taking advantage of the chaos to swallow up their competitors.
    What are you talking about? We were talking about competition, not capitalism, or do you believe the two are synonymous?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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