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  1. #81
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You know, I feel like the world's biggest hypocrite saying this, but...

    ...let's get back on topic, shall we?
    Go to hell teacher. We hate school.

  2. #82
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    did you read my post? I said that they DO become part of society, so they might as well get used to it!
    Im sure if that argument was used in other contexts, you'd be screaming like hell.

  3. #83
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I'm all over the place on this thing. I'm pro-homeschooling and have homeschooled (using the term generously, here), but my kids are in public school (for the last five years) and it's been a positive experience overall, even though my kids are in what are considered low-income inner-city schools.

    However, I have had a few fights with school staff who believed they knew better what my kids needed than I did (including being pressured to medicate them) and a few cases of apathy and/or hostility.

    The idea that the schools do not attempt to indoctrinate children is naive to the point of being delusional. They do, often overtly. Most of the stuff is harmless but it's still ideological indoctrination.

    Some of the indoctrination around here is just as Evangelical Christian as the person in charge can get by with without risking a lawsuit. Some of it has the kids worried sick about the environment -- my son mentioned a few days ago that the planet would be a lot better off without humans on it. My daughter got to play a game in health class in which children were (pretend) given social diseases and made (though various pretend acts) to spread the disease around to one another. It can be really, really varied.

    The funny thing is, that despite considering myself a disenfranchised Evangelical, it really bothered me when they had all the kids singing predominantly religious songs at the Christmas programs. There are plenty of neutral songs out there, but the principal is really pushy with the Christianity whenever she gets the chance.

    I've also been to a dinner via my brother who is a Evangelical minister (he needed some warm bodies to fill up some tables, lol) where the school superintendent was bragging about taking legal risks by allowing Christianity into the district's schools. I've been to enough school board meetings to know better, but the people at the dinner just ate it up.

    Socialization has been a mixed bag. Overall, my kids haven't been bullied much, but I'm aware of it happening to other kids. The primary determining factor for whether or not it gets addressed appears to be how well the teachers like your kid or even whether or not they like you. Oftentimes, if they happen not to like your kid, your kid is screwed unless they really, really like you. My kids appear to be mostly likable to the teachers and not so unlikable to the other kids that they've been regular targets.

    Generally, my kids are convinced that most of the other kids are idiots and brutes. I've taught them to be polite, so generally the other kids don't pick up on it and like my kids. I guess that is probably a necessary life skill as is doing a bunch of meaningless busywork.

    In addition, I think a fellow student's recent behavior has probably inoculated my 8th grader against recreational drug use for life. Apparently homo-erotic behavior is much more appealing in fan-fic than irl. Suffice it to say she was mildly traumatized but seems to be mostly recovered.

    Public school is not my first choice, but we're making it work reasonably well for the time being. The quality of education and socialization in public schools is all over the board to the point that I really don't see how you can make a blanket generalization that possibly being under-socialized with an uneven education is worse than going to public school. There are too many kids who are outright victimized socially and who slip through the cracks academically -- the graduation rate in my state is horrible -- to say it's better.

    Of course attending a very good public school is better than spending all day in the house picking your nose. But is spending all day in your house reading books and hanging out with your siblings and seeing your church friends on Sunday and Wednesday services really worse than spending your day filling out worksheets for a person who hates their job, dislikes you and spending recess getting ridiculed and beat up? I don't think so.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #84
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    ^ Finally a smart post in this thread.

  5. #85
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    This is just your alias. It's your M.O.

    Seen it all before.
    I need to change my name on here so you can say that without sounding like an idiot!

  6. #86
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    I need to change my name on here so you can say that without sounding like an idiot!
    Your avatar is part of the alias too.

  7. #87
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    <snip>

    The idea that the schools do not attempt to indoctrinate children is naive to the point of being delusional. They do, often overtly. Most of the stuff is harmless but it's still ideological indoctrination.

    <snip>

    The funny thing is, that despite considering myself a disenfranchised Evangelical, it really bothered me when they had all the kids singing predominantly religious songs at the Christmas programs. There are plenty of neutral songs out there, but the principal is really pushy with the Christianity whenever she gets the chance.

    <snip>

    Of course attending a very good public school is better than spending all day in the house picking your nose. But is spending all day in your house reading books and hanging out with your siblings and seeing your church friends on Sunday and Wednesday services really worse than spending your day filling out worksheets for a person who hates their job, dislikes you and spending recess getting ridiculed and beat up? I don't think so.
    1. Yeah it's hard to see people saying that teaching your kids is brainwashing but schools are great places to not get brainwashed?

    2. In our school system they sing winter, christmas and hannukah songs. Very catholic/jewish area so I've always thought it was neat. Of course, I'm a Christian with maternal adoptive Jewish grandparents so maybe that's why I don't mind it. It always seems to me that schools make the religion stuff too hard. If there was a big muslim area around it would make sense to incorporate that, too. We also get Jewish holidays off.

    3. School experience does depend greatly on your teachers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Your avatar is part of the alias too.
    Yeah, I pay four kids to stand in as children of mine and paid some chick who look like my avatar to go to real life gatherings, too. You caught me :O

  8. #88
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    1. Yeah it's hard to see people saying that teaching your kids is brainwashing but schools are great places to not get brainwashed?
    It's cuz "homeschooling", to a lot of people, is code for fundamentalist Christian brainwashing. And public schools don't usually do the religious indoctrination thing.

    It's just a stereotype of course. But the families I know that also happen to homeschool also happen to be pretty intense Christians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Yeah, I pay four kids to stand in as children of mine and paid some chick who look like my avatar to go to real life gatherings, too. You caught me :O
    Your methods are extreme, but noteworthy.

  9. #89
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    2. In our school system they sing winter, christmas and hannukah songs. Very catholic/jewish area so I've always thought it was neat. Of course, I'm a Christian with maternal adoptive Jewish grandparents so maybe that's why I don't mind it. It always seems to me that schools make the religion stuff too hard. If there was a big muslim area around it would make sense to incorporate that, too. We also get Jewish holidays off.
    I think the thing that bothers me about it is that the same people who push for the overtly Christian stuff would scream bloody murder if they tried to incorporate anything beyond, like, one Hanukkah song. They would freak if they had to accommodate something Muslim or Hindu, etc or even Judaism in a serious way.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #90
    Oberon
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    I still think that homeschooling is a better educational model than public schooling.

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