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Thread: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.

  1. #21
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    So, the best way to remedy this was to remove them from the academic setting altogether and devise a curriculum that didn't actively "undermine" their childrens' faith?
    Night, night, night... your ignorance embarrasses me on your behalf.

    [sigh]

    Why is government-sponsored education the gold standard?

  2. #22
    lackluster primate Array Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Night, night, night... your ignorance embarrasses me on your behalf.

    [sigh]

    Why is government-sponsored education the gold standard?
    I wasn't attacking you Oberon. I was commenting on the causal relationship you offered between strength of personal faith and mainstream education. You posited that traditional schooling can undermine faith. I responded that faith and education needn't overlap in terms of ultimate importance and that the belief that they do likely suggests an insecurity with one or the other.

    I think you kind of proved my point with your response.

  3. #23
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Oh yeah, just look at the motivation. They're Evangelic fundamentalists, and they want to brainwash their children.
    Look into it and I strongly suspect that you will find that the government's case against them was not particularly due to the parents wanting to brainwash their children, but that the children should receive their brainwashing from the parents rather than the government.

    When it comes to matters like this, the state hates competition.

  4. #24
    Nickle Iron Silicone Array Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    It's only when elements (say, biology and earth science) are purposely removed or disfigured to advance religious perspective that I have a problem...
    So often is the case in private religious schools as well.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  5. #25
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I wasn't attacking you Oberon. I was commenting on the causal relationship you offered between strength of personal faith and mainstream education. You posited that traditional schooling can undermine faith. I responded that faith and education needn't overlap in terms of ultimate importance and that the belief that they do likely suggests an insecurity with one or the other.

    I think you kind of proved my point with your response.
    No, it's not that at all. It's just that, if you had been down the road I've been down, you would understand that your remarks weren't really based on valid assumptions. I think about trying to help you understand, and am just about to the point of giving up... it's not that you're dumb, it's that you just don't know.

    Why don't you read up on this for a few weeks and get back to me, okay?

  6. #26
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Nicely said, Oberon. Sounds like you have a very balanced approach.
    Well, thanks. We try.

    I'm getting too overwrought over this. As you can tell, I'm emotionally invested pretty deep in this topic.

    I'm going to go have some lunch and relax a bit.

  7. #27
    lackluster primate Array Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    No, it's not that at all. It's just that, if you had been down the road I've been down, you would understand that your remarks weren't really based on valid assumptions. I think about trying to help you understand, and am just about to the point of giving up... it's not that you're dumb, it's that you just don't know.

    Why don't you read up on this for a few weeks and get back to me, okay?
    You're funny.

    You're obviously very sensitive about the issue, and aren't thinking about what you're saying. I get it - the homeschooling biz has made you uncomfortable and defensive over the years for many different reasons (probably many of which go beyond the scope of our current discussion).

    I'm not going to to travel down this road with you. If you read my continuum of responses in this thread, I've already offered an almost summary support of your particular position. Here's an earlier comment:

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Yeah, I agree with this.

    As a continuum, responsible, academically-balanced homeschooling is certainly a legitimate enterprise. It's only when elements (say, biology and earth science) are purposely removed or disfigured to advance religious perspective that I have a problem with homeschooling, and it seems more an attempt to micromanage outlook, rather than as a means to encourage intellectual growth that wouldn't otherwise be available in a traditional classroom setting.

    In that particular case, I'd go so far as to call homeschooling intentional neglect of the child's well-being.
    If you react this strongly to an online discussion, I can only imagine the issue has caused you a lot of grief over the years.

    Best of luck, Oberon.

  8. #28
    .~ *aĉa virino* ~. Array Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I was bothered about their main objection (which was the religious issue), considering what was potentially being traded off. I've just seen far too much cloistering of kids rather than equipping them to deal with the world.

    However, I can far more respect a position like Oberon's, which discusses some very legitimate issues with public school and how home-schooling can remedy them. Home-schooling seems like a pursuit that either is done really well or really poorly... if you do it well, it's worth it, but if you do it lukewarmly or poorly, it's has potential for worse disaster than just leaving well enough alone.

    It does have the benefit of allowing children and parents to spend more time together, but then the issue of peer socialization has to be taken care of. Still, any issue can be "worked" to find some sort of solution.

    I'm not much for the "brainwashing" defense which tries to accuse every involved agency of indoctrination; that argument loses the nuance of what specifically is being taught by who and why, and how much flexibility is being permitted by the teacher. Just because agents are necessarily teaching a particular point of view does not put their approaches on the same footing or make them equivalent in motivation, fairness, balance, etc.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  9. #29
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    My mother teaches 3rd grade in a public school and is considered good enough by parents in the area that they will take thier children out of home school or private school for the 3rd grade year just to have her teach them (I've heard that when lurking around helping out at the fun fair there and such)

    This means that she usually has a couple of kids each year who were home schooled

    she said that the biggest problem is that they don't understand the social dynamics as well as the kids who've been acclimated to large groups of children and they are usually somewhat unbalanced in their education- like they're great at reading, writing, science and social studies but have the math abilities of someone who never took 2nd grade, or they're math geniuses who are nearly illiterate. It's not that the kids are dumb either, because they seem to pick up on the material really quickly once it's introduced.

    I just don't think that a lot of parents who homeschool are adequatley trained in how to promote a well rounded education- it's not that ALL aren't, but there are a lot of parents out there who teach what they know best and try with what they don't.

    I also think that being exposed to a diverse group of people and ideas is good for a child and promotes free thinking and breaks the apron strings, but that's just my opinion
    Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom? -Terry Pratchett

  10. #30
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It does have the benefit of allowing children and parents to spend more time together, but then the issue of peer socialization has to be taken care of. Still, any issue can be "worked" to find some sort of solution.
    We homeschoolers get that a lot. It's commonly referred to as "The Socialization Question," as in "How your children get socialized if they're home all day?"

    My usual response is something like "You know, their mother and I were concerned about that too. So once a week we take them into the bathroom, rough them up, curse at them, steal their lunch money and offer them drugs, and that seems to take care of it."

    You see, the question is based on the assumption that the social experience offered by public schools is a positive influence. However, in my experience the socialization offered by public schools isn't necessarily a net positive.

    In any case, my kids do ballet, 4H, boy scouts, city-league soccer, and the church youth group, so there are plenty of opportunities for group interaction and the formation of peer relationships.

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