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  1. #21
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    ^ridiculous. Emergency care isn't a right either, there are no rights. And you seem perfectly happy to rob all kinds of Peters to pay Paul to pave your roads and patrol the neighborhood.
    1.) Concerning the concept of rights (which for all practical purposes is a necessary concept in terms of securing individual liberties, regardless of objective validity), tell that to the people comparing health insurance to voting rights.

    2.) Way to compare apples to oranges; public health insurance is a massively expensive and unsustainable entitlement, while transportation networks and police are relatively inexpensive and easily sustainable common goods necessary for any society larger than a small village to function.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The Soviet Union bit the dust the same way all centrally-planned economies do: there is no reliable way to determine prices without a market.
    You should check out Japan's system.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #23
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    More like another nail in the coffin of socialism...

    What we learned from the failure of the USSR is that we didn't learn anything. Or much.
    Yeah, you're a product of the US political scene and therefore dont know how to use the word socialism properly.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    No, but I think that one day most of Europe's young adults will decide that "(public) universal health care" is not really a right outside of emergency care. This will happen as soon as the consequences of Europe's sub-replacement fertility rates becomes apparent-instead of robbing one Peter to pay one Paul, they will be robbing one Peter to pay two Pauls.
    I'm not sure at all what any of that is meant to mean, basically you dont like tax and you especially dont like redistributive tax, fair enough, that's as far as any understanding of economics or policy is going to go then.

    Also, patriotic swagger is a very poor substitute for a proper argument or point.

  5. #25
    Member the killer potatoe's Avatar
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  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Does anybody else get the feeling while watching this health care debate that a Republican vote is worth more than a Democratic vote?
    Democrats unfortunately play their cards like this is the case.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #27
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Democrats unfortunately play their cards like this is the case.
    What the Hell.

    They need to come to terms with the fact that they're the majority now and damn well act like it.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #28
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    What the Hell.

    They need to come to terms with the fact that they're the majority now and damn well act like it.
    If only they could convert Dick Cheney into a Democrat.
    Then maybe they'd get some shit done!
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  9. #29
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not sure at all what any of that is meant to mean...
    My (quite obvious) point is that public health care entitlements are unsustainable in countries with more elderly dependents than economically productive members of the population, and said economically productive tax-payers will decide that public health-care is not a right, but rather a luxury they cannot afford. Unfortunately for them, the dependents will have more voting power, leading to prolonged political as well as economic crisis.

    Do you have any specific reasons why this is an erroneous forecast, or did you just wish to attempt to pretend you don't understand my point so that you could dismiss and stigmatize my post as "patriotic swagger" in an effort to avoid contemplating or debating the sustainability of public health-care in light of the sub-replacement fertility rate within most European countries?

  10. #30
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    My (quite obvious) point is that public health care entitlements are unsustainable in countries with more elderly dependents than economically productive members of the population, and said economically productive tax-payers will decide that public health-care is not a right, but rather a luxury they cannot afford. Unfortunately for them, the dependents will have more voting power, leading to prolonged political as well as economic crisis.

    Do you have any specific reasons why this is an erroneous forecast, or did you just wish to attempt to pretend you don't understand my point so that you could dismiss and stigmatize my post as "patriotic swagger" in an effort to avoid contemplating or debating the sustainability of public health-care in light of the sub-replacement fertility rate within most European countries?
    You framed your post in the form of a "our system beats yours", the minute that happens you may as well be discussing college football with the supporter of a rival team, the conclusions arent reached rationally but they are rationalised. Simple as. I'm not pretending anything. No debating tricks.

    My original point was whether or not these debates would in some distant future be considered akin to the debates about universal sufferage and BTW the argument against universal sufferage was similar to the one you just mentioned about health care.

    You've got no idea of what current debates in health service provision in Europe are if you think that forecast is accurate, the hot topic across Europe is not how young bucks can evade tax extortion from their elders, its about euthenasia, DNRs etc.

    So I really wouldnt worry about the possibility of an electoral dictatorship of "greys" extorting the productive young to pay their health bills, its rank propaganda. You could have points about other forms of tax and spend, there are grossly generous benefits made available through taxation which are unpopular but that's a different question, you cant generalise it to health, and while unpopular those same transfers remain necessary in a modern economy none the less (I also seems a bit stupid and miserable to be envious of the village idiots who choose to live off others handouts too).

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