User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 52

  1. #11
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    2w1
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    I think that this summit was somewhat informative, but mostly another political donkey show. Obviously people are going to continue to cling to their preconceived, uninformed opinions about what the bill(s) address(es) but there's still time for them to reconcile some of the issues where there doesn't seem to be any common ground. Public option, for example, has practically been thrown out with the Depends. They avoid doing what the majority wants for fear of the loud, obnoxious minority and, because of the outspoken minority, we haven't even heard any kind of sensible debate on the issues.

    The public option has plenty of support outside of DC, which I didn't know until I actually started doing some research on it. About 2/3 of Democrats, 1/2 of Independents and 1/3(in most polls) of Republicans support a public option; granted, these pollsters aren't asking specific questions about it(how to pay for it, etc) but it's obvious that there's enough popular support for it to pass on a referendum vote(if that were an option). Talking points and personal agendas(ie, lobbying $$s) pretty much destroyed a chance at improving the system for the health care industry and the public.

    Lark makes a good point that could just as easily applied to a dozen issues in our country(homosexual rights, corporate welfare, abortion, etc, etc). Since when are higher expectations a bad thing? Would it make the right-wing happy if we went back to mule, buggy and wooden wheels? Couldn't they just start a neo-Amish colony in Wyoming and let the rest of work on improving the state of man?

    Nice Avatar.

    89% Extroverted ~ 68% Intuition ~ 84% Feeling ~ 89% Perceiving
    Enneagram: 2w1 SO/SP Socionics: ENFp
    Cognitive Process
    Se 30.4% Si 19.1% - Ne 38.4% Ni 26.4% - Te 23.1% Ti 20% - Fe 46.4% Fi 35.8%
    Sanguine | Phlegmatic
    Right Brain Dominant

  2. #12
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Reform is the opposite of what Obama and friends are pushing for.
    Wasn't it just a public option they were pushing for? They never said anyone had to give up his current health care plan if he liked it, did they?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #13
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    Would it make the right-wing happy if we went back to mule, buggy and wooden wheels? Couldn't they just start a neo-Amish colony in Wyoming and let the rest of work on improving the state of man?
    No but thats the problem. THEY DO see themselves as super self dependent and self made amish people!

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle
    2. I think this rich person mindset stems from a world of industry long gone. Think of the farmer who works with his own hands and earns his living from the very tangible goods of his own land and his own labor. Then it would appear that no matter the $ value attached to the crops, you would feel like you are entitled to it. Maybe then it really would feel like someone was stealing from you with taxes and transfer payments. This is the only way I can see someone maybe kind of justifying that taxes and transfer payments are stealing.

    3. Is modern work really like farming though? Does the $250k ibanker really own his work from seed to crop? Is it really "all him"? Crops are valuable in a vacuum (just his family) and can be made by yourself. Modern industry is only valuable in a society and can only be made by collective effort. Thus we can conclude that as long as workers see their work like farming (I till the business/computer monitor/cubicle/investments and I reap crops of $), they will continue to feel like people are stealing from them in taxes and transfer payments.

    4. The solution would be to point out that modern work isnt exactly like farming. What if the crops in our farm example only had value in a society? What if the soil that makes them grow only existed in a society? What if every step of the way some part of your farming was made possible or valuable by society? Could you really at the end of the day then claim that the crops are valuable in a vacuum? Could you claim that you are entitled to all of the crops value because you and only you made it happen? No. And for modern work, these aren't "what ifs?" but realities. Making $100k as a lawyer/doctor/accountant/mechanic/IT/etc is not like farming. Your work is only valuable as part of a society and your work is only possible because of certain things afforded by a society (legal, cultural and civil structure etc).

  4. #14
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    2w1
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    504

    Default

    WASHINGTON After a day of debate and disagreement, President Barack Obama concluded Thursday's unprecedented live talkfest on health care with the bleak assessment that accord between Democrats and Republicans may not be possible. He rejected Republican preferences for seeking a step-by-step solution or simply starting over.

    Obama strongly suggested that Democrats will try to pass a sweeping overhaul without GOP support, by using controversial Senate budget rules that would disallow filibusters. And then, he said, this fall's elections would write the verdict on who was right.


    Source

    I guess we will see then.

    Democrats plan to begin rhetorical, and perhaps legislative, steps toward the Democrats-only, or reconciliation, process early next week, the strategists said.

    Source

    Here comes reconciliation.

    89% Extroverted ~ 68% Intuition ~ 84% Feeling ~ 89% Perceiving
    Enneagram: 2w1 SO/SP Socionics: ENFp
    Cognitive Process
    Se 30.4% Si 19.1% - Ne 38.4% Ni 26.4% - Te 23.1% Ti 20% - Fe 46.4% Fi 35.8%
    Sanguine | Phlegmatic
    Right Brain Dominant

  5. #15
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Do you guys think that one day the arguments over universal health care will seem like the arguments over universal adult sufferage?
    No, but I think that one day most of Europe's young adults will decide that "(public) universal health care" is not really a right outside of emergency care. This will happen as soon as the consequences of Europe's sub-replacement fertility rates becomes apparent-instead of robbing one Peter to pay one Paul, they will be robbing one Peter to pay two Pauls.

  6. #16
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    No, but I think that one day most of Europe's young adults will decide that "(public) universal health care" is not really a right outside of emergency care. This will happen as soon as the consequences of Europe's sub-replacement fertility rates becomes apparent-instead of robbing one Peter to pay one Paul, they will be robbing one Peter to pay two Pauls.

    ^ridiculous. Emergency care isn't a right either, there are no rights. And you seem perfectly happy to rob all kinds of Peters to pay Paul to pave your roads and patrol the neighborhood.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  7. #17
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/so
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alexx View Post
    Obama strongly suggested that Democrats will try to pass a sweeping overhaul without GOP support, by using controversial Senate budget rules that would disallow filibusters.
    Kind of like the Republicans passed controversial legislation for 8 years? Like the War on Terrorism, the War in Iraq, the PATRIOT Act, and the Economic Bailout? Wow. I see a pattern here... The elites in charge are looking after their own and shitting on the people that voted them into office! Who would have thunk?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexx View Post
    And then, he said, this fall's elections would write the verdict on who was right.
    I think the statement above overestimates the short term memory of the American voter.

    As the blind man said: "We shall see."
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  8. #18
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    esfp
    Enneagram
    7
    Posts
    1,452

    Default

    On the topic of health care reform. Well. It's hard for me to take any of these politicians seriously, especially the Republicans who are opposed to any kind of health care reform. They're complaining about... what?... socialism? What the heck??? They've got the best publicly funded health care plan in the United States, namely the Congressional Health Plan, and they are going on and on about how public health care plans don't work??? Are they suffering with bad health care because they have a public health care plan?? Are they enjoying the benefits of an HMO in which the insurance company pays doctors not to provide medical care?
    I didn't think so.
    So, in my opinion, these politicians are nothing but a pack of hypocrites.
    Second issue:
    If the American health care system is supposedly the best (well, most expensive, anyway) in the world, why is the United States ranked number 49 in life expectancy, just ahead of Albania? These are figures compiled by the CIA. You can see the rankings at https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2102rank.html
    Of course, there are other factors, such as lifestyle and violence and wars and the such, but, if we had a great health care system with universal access, our life expectancy ranking should go up dramatically.
    I want a single payer plan. It works in other countries. It certainly works in Japan (number three in life expectancy) and Canada (number eight) and Sweden (number nine).
    Someone else mentioned the old USSR. That is now defunct. It did not bite the dust because of universal health care. It probably is more likely that it bit the dust because of its pointless war in Afghanistan.
    Pointless war in Afghanistan... hmmm. that sounds familiar...
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  9. #19
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Does anybody else get the feeling while watching this health care debate that a Republican vote is worth more than a Democratic vote?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #20
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    On the topic of health care reform. Well. It's hard for me to take any of these politicians seriously, especially the Republicans who are opposed to any kind of health care reform. They're complaining about... what?... socialism? What the heck??? They've got the best publicly funded health care plan in the United States, namely the Congressional Health Plan, and they are going on and on about how public health care plans don't work??? Are they suffering with bad health care because they have a public health care plan?? Are they enjoying the benefits of an HMO in which the insurance company pays doctors not to provide medical care?
    I didn't think so.
    So, in my opinion, these politicians are nothing but a pack of hypocrites.
    Second issue:
    If the American health care system is supposedly the best (well, most expensive, anyway) in the world, why is the United States ranked number 49 in life expectancy, just ahead of Albania? These are figures compiled by the CIA. You can see the rankings at https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2102rank.html
    Of course, there are other factors, such as lifestyle and violence and wars and the such, but, if we had a great health care system with universal access, our life expectancy ranking should go up dramatically.
    I want a single payer plan. It works in other countries. It certainly works in Japan (number three in life expectancy) and Canada (number eight) and Sweden (number nine).
    Someone else mentioned the old USSR. That is now defunct. It did not bite the dust because of universal health care. It probably is more likely that it bit the dust because of its pointless war in Afghanistan.
    Pointless war in Afghanistan... hmmm. that sounds familiar...

    The Soviet Union bit the dust the same way all centrally-planned economies do: there is no reliable way to determine prices without a market.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

Similar Threads

  1. Why Would Health Reform Pass? Its Impossible!
    By nomadic in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-16-2010, 03:57 PM
  2. Chuck Norris does not Approve of the Health Care Reform.
    By Gewitter27 in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-30-2009, 03:45 PM
  3. Conservative attacks on health confirmed
    By rivercrow in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 09-11-2008, 03:36 PM
  4. Serious health-related question
    By Langrenus in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 06-21-2007, 04:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO