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  1. #51
    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMWarner View Post
    A-f'ing-men.

    I don't want to get into the complicated issue of why this might be true, but isn't it entirely possible that black people have committed 20 times the drug crimes as white people?
    No! Like I've said before, whites use AND sell drugs at the same rate as black people.

    I know that some people are tired of everything becoming "a race issue," but that is absurd. It IS a race issue. So please get into the complicated issue as to why it might be true because your uncomplicated one is false. I'd love to hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    The same reason things don't really ever change in Washington? Maybe people go into their positions and offices, etc with the intent to change things, but they get swallowed up by the machine.
    Yes, good point. Although in Washington, we're looking at changes on a federal level. This is a much smaller scale. Citizens actually have a great deal of influence in local politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe
    ]When you say "lock up" does that mean long prison sentences or short stays in jail? If they do not think it's that big a deal, a short jail stay might be the equivalent to a slap on the wrist. If they handing down longer sentences and enforcing them, that's a different story.
    I see your point, although I personally think that even short jail stays have negative consequences. I'm not sure what type of sentences that these people in San Francisco are receiving. I'll have to check it out. What I do know is that the war on drugs is out of control. 55% of federal prisoners are in there for a drug crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe
    Otherwise, there has to be some serious selective enforcement going on regardless of the laws.
    Bingo.

  2. #52
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    No! Like I've said before, whites use AND sell drugs at the same rate as black people.
    If true, this is both remarkable and noteworthy.

    Why should people from distinct and disparate cultures, with different distribution of incomes, different average levels of education and different levels and types of employment, just happen to use and sell illegal drugs at the same rate?

    Personally I think it more likely that incidence of drug crime correlates fairly strongly with economic class, which is only tenuously connected with race. In any event, if you could direct me to some primary-source data that backs up your assertion, I'd appreciate it.

  3. #53
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    What I do know is that the war on drugs is out of control.
    Amen, sister.

  4. #54
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Amen, sister.
    Did anyone here discuss "Rat Park" yet?
    (Sorry, I am still thinking about cheese, I suppose.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #55
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Did anyone here discuss "Rat Park" yet?
    (Sorry, I am still thinking about cheese, I suppose.)
    I'm so depressed, I...

    Oh, wait... wrong thread. sorry.

  6. #56
    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    If true, this is both remarkable and noteworthy.

    Why should people from distinct and disparate cultures, with different distribution of incomes, different average levels of education and different levels and types of employment, just happen to use and sell illegal drugs at the same rate?
    Just to be clear, I'm not making any sort of educational or economic assertions because I'm not sure of the statistics there. I'm just saying that nationally, whites and blacks use and sell drugs at the same rates, but blacks are 10 times more likely to be arrested for a drug crime.

    In any event, if you could direct me to some primary-source data that backs up your assertion, I'd appreciate it.
    The "10 times more likely" statistic is from a report that has yet to be released by a bi-partisan criminal justice think-tank that I work at in D.C., so unfortunately I can't link you to that until the report comes out (12/4).

    Here are a couple of stats from a Human Rights Watch article called, Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs (The actual report is long, but can be found here: United States - Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs)

    --While blacks make up about 13% of regular drug users in the US, they make up 62.7% of all drug offenders admitted to prison.

    --While there are 5 times as many white drug users as black drug users, black men are admitted to state prison for drug offenses at a rate that is 13.4 times greater than that of white men. This drives an overall black incarceration rate that is 8.2 times higher than the white incarceration rate.

    --In seven states, blacks constitute 80 to 90% of all drug offenders sent to prison. In 15 states, black men are admitted to state prison for drug charges at a rate that is 20 to 57 times the white male rate

  7. #57
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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  8. #58
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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  9. #59
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMWarner View Post
    A-f'ing-men.

    I don't want to get into the complicated issue of why this might be true, but isn't it entirely possible that black people have committed 20 times the drug crimes as white people?
    Why this might be true probably holds the answer to your question.

    ETA: I'd just want to point people in the direction of some FACTS about this topic:

    Topic - National Criminal Justice Reference Service
    DEA, Drug Information
    DEA, Stats & Facts
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #60
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    Just to be clear, I'm not making any sort of educational or economic assertions because I'm not sure of the statistics there. I'm just saying that nationally, whites and blacks use and sell drugs at the same rates, but blacks are 10 times more likely to be arrested for a drug crime.
    Yeah, I was clear on that. My question is "How do you know"?

    I can understand how we can get accurate data on race vs. imprisonment... imprisonments are documented and the stats are made public.

    On the other hand, I have no idea how one would try to arrive at accurate figures on race vs. drug usage and/or drug sales, absent arrests for those activities. It's not like you can do a FOIA request for point-of-sale receipts from the Medellin cartel, cross-referenced by race.

    The reason I belabor this point is because the idea that "blacks and whites use and sell drugs at the same rate" looks like an axiom, possibly an axiom with its roots in a political outlook. I'm not saying it is or isn't that, but I would like to understand more about the methodology in any event.

    Can you help me with that?

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