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  1. #41
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I imagine the police and the judicial system must be less than liberal and the people being victimized have not been able to rally the kind of broad support needed in order to combat the injustice.
    This is npg & Haight:

    Regardless, the liberal people still influence the politics and policing in their city. We're talking about drugs here, not homicides or robberies. There are a lot of liberal alternatives and evidence-based treatments that don't involved locking people up. You would expect that liberal people would vote for liberal candidates, and they would enact liberal laws.

    So why hasn't that happened?
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  2. #42
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Why is San Francisco one of the wealthiest areas in the country (real estate prices were second only to NYC, the last time I checked), one of the most Liberal areas, and yet one that locks up blacks for drug crimes at a rate that is twenty times that of white folks in the same city?

    If I was to wager a guess, I would say because when they first really began to engage the War on Drugs some years ago, they went after dealers in the poor communities much more that the users. This was due to San Fransisco having a tolerant policy toward drug abuse. Since the impoverished communities, where the majority of drugs were dealt, hosted mostly minorities at the time, it left a generation of users who now are generally middle aged. Then over the last decade, there has been a sharp increase in the number of drug arrests for possession, including in San Fransisco, as politicians have passed more stringent legislation. The older minority users who were created in the arrest gap now account for the majority of those who are arrested and the result is a disproportionate amount of the blacks being arrested for drug possession.

  3. #43
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Wrong. It's one of the worst answers.

    There is clear evidence in this drug-related example that blacks are being unfairly prosecuted, and that evidence is that blacks and whites report drug usage at similar rates. Actually, some statistics say that whites use MORE alcohol and drugs than black people.
    Yesssss... what gave you the impression I wasn't agreeing with this...?

  4. #44
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Interesting post, Haight.

    As I see it, the real question is, what's the best bar to go to in San Francisco if one wants to have fun and get drunk at affordable prices, without having to dress up in pretentious clothing?

  5. #45
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Both William F. Buckley Jr. and Milton Friedman opposed the drug war as early as the early 1980s, so the motivation for punishment commensurate with that classified as non-violent and subject to particular treatment -- or the legalization of certain activities -- would seem to have generally libertarian roots.

    San Franciscans, by majority, are leftists, not libertarians. Or liberals. There is a marked difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    You would expect that liberal people would vote for liberal candidates, and they would enact liberal laws.
    You would as long as you believed that popular leftism was substantive, or practical, or at least more than such self-congratulatory ostentation as "raising awareness." Of course, this is where most postmodern twenty-somethings realize that by abjuring they'd lose half their friends; so they step back and rationalize.

  6. #46
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    oh no! your tounge doesn't have frog fungus does it?!?
    I'm not sure, but their is a mushroom patch their, so maybe.

  7. #47
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I'm not sure, but their is a mushroom patch their, so maybe.
    the type of mushrooms that people eat for food or for fun?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Maybe black people are committing more crimes, or more severe crimes, than the white people in the city, for whatever reason. Is there something indicating that black people are being prosecuted unjustly for crimes?

    Why do people always assume that there's hate crimes and prejudice involved whenever racial differences are present?

    And, liberal people doesn't automatically mean that the police are liberal.
    A-f'ing-men.

    I don't want to get into the complicated issue of why this might be true, but isn't it entirely possible that black people have committed 20 times the drug crimes as white people?

  9. #49
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    This is npg & Haight:

    Regardless, the liberal people still influence the politics and policing in their city. We're talking about drugs here, not homicides or robberies. There are a lot of liberal alternatives and evidence-based treatments that don't involved locking people up. You would expect that liberal people would vote for liberal candidates, and they would enact liberal laws.

    So why hasn't that happened?
    The same reason things don't really ever change in Washington? Maybe people go into their positions and offices, etc with the intent to change things, but they get swallowed up by the machine.

    When you say "lock up" does that mean long prison sentences or short stays in jail? If they do not think it's that big a deal, a short jail stay might be the equivalent to a slap on the wrist. If they handing down longer sentences and enforcing them, that's a different story.

    And even if they changed the law, that doesn't address the race issue. We either have to assume that something like twenty percent of the population is committing twenty times the drug crimes as the majority or that the laws, as they are, are being selectively enforced based on race. I lean towards it being selective enforcement unless there is some sort of weird geographic demographic going on like very few non-blacks living in the city proper or something. If there were twenty times as many blacks as whites in the area or even a little less adjusting for the reality that racism reduces the availability of legal lucrative pursuits for blacks, you would except to see arrests be in proportion with those numbers. Otherwise, there has to be some serious selective enforcement going on regardless of the laws.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #50
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Moved from The Fluff Zone.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

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