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  1. #41
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Fuck, people. Why do we even have this dumbass preconceived notion that we need to be #1 at everything anyway?

    Every other country in the world seems to be fine with not getting up on a moral high horse and feels as though its their duty to police the world, so why do we?

    If the U.S. isn't #1 militarily or economically, it won't be the end of the world. The invisible "bad guys" won't suddenly invade us, and we won't suddenly become defenseless. Get over it. If we change the system, and we're no longer "#1," then we don't deserve to be "#1." IMO, it's a shit ton better to be number 2 or 3 or even 4 compared to following a path to ruin at all costs.
    Last edited by Blank; 03-01-2010 at 02:15 AM. Reason: lol, "every other country in the rule"
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  2. #42
    Senior Member ChildoftheProphets's Avatar
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    Default Overspending and Overextending

    Quote Originally Posted by peterk View Post
    AS for Japan. What were we supposed to do, let them take over all of Asia? Korea and Vietnam were necessary wars to stop communism--a threat as great as Fascism. You can stick your head up your ass and be antiwar and isolationist but in the end, when the bad guys will have amassed so much power, it will be necessary to fight or die. This is what America did prior to WWII.

    Japan attacked us, and our entrance into WWII was an act of self-defense. Rebuilding their nation and most of Europe afterwards was also possible because of our newly jump-started economy. Nation-builiding in Iraq and Afghanistan has been at the cost of increasing debt.

    As for fighting to "stop communism," where do you draw the line? Do you consider Cuba or China to be communist and do you think leaving them alone all these years to have been a bad thing? On a similar note, why embargo the former and trade with the latter? Or what about domestic witch-hunts like the McCarthy hearings?

    Policing the world is an expensive, paranoiac, and schizophrenic business.

    That is why America became so isolationist right before WWII: the isolationism was a reaction to the horrors of the Great War! America had had little reason to enter that WWI, and once we did, we paid dearly for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    While it is true that most politicians dont keep promises, what the hell are we judging Ron Paul on if he doesnt even believe in his own plans?
    Ron Paul and many of his supporters realize that there is only so much that a president can realistically do. Putting the U.S back on the gold standard is not among them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    He is absolutely bat shit crazy and has zero understanding of modern economics.
    Ha, I thought the EXACT same thing when I first came across him back in 2007, but after reading many of his essays, I found his logic to be airtight. (His speaking ability and self-presentation leaves a lot to be desired, however.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    The Fed hands over its profits to the treasury every year and is made up of hundreds of civil servants working for what basically ends up being gov paychecks.
    Okay, if in essence they already work for the government, why shouldn't the Fed be audited so the public can see what it really does? And if the government shouldn't be trusted to do the audit (which Paul wants) or nationalize it (which Paul doesn't want), why have the Fed in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I guess the real truth is that Ron Paul doesnt want ANYONE running america's money supply
    Bingo. He believes that governments should bring about the greatest good for the greatest number, but NOT at the expense of any unwilling individuals. This unfortunately allows for (but does not necessitate) voluntary social disorder and suffering in the form of self-harm and passive greed (e.g. addictive behaviors and socio-economic disparity).

    The bright side of this philosophy is that everyone is protected from coercion, and all suffering can be blamed on bad choices or bad luck, although many would would rather have complete order and equality rather than freedom and inequality.

    When I still thought Ron Paul was crazy, I decided I could still vote for him anyway, confident that most of his "craziest" ideas would never ever be allowed by Congress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Eugenics is what allowed Hitler to convince an entire nation of otherwise sane people to get on board. Eugenics was elevated to a highly respected science in the USA.
    I agree. Twentieth century eugenics was not a high point for mankind at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Inflation has not been a serious American problem since the 1970s, thanks in large part to having a very capable federal reserve.
    Um, inflation may be small and under control, but it's not nonexistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    So rather then just campaign on a balanced budget, we need to take our monetary policy back to the dark ages?
    I agree, balancing the budget is the most practical and achievable way to improving our economy. The question is, do raise taxes or cut back on wars and social programs? Getting people to agree on that course of action is nigh impossible, which is why our budget balloons each and every year.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterk View Post
    The national debt, social security, and health care are going to bankrupt us and make it impossible for us to have a decent military. We will become a second rate power. Ron Paul and liberal democrates would like to see that. Anything to keep us out of a war.
    I agree with that first part (overspending will bankrupt us and make military power a moot point), but I'm not sure what you mean in the second part.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterk View Post
    Sometimes interventionism is necessary before things get out of hand. Just because Iraq turned out badly doesn't mean we shouldn't have done it.
    But that's just it, isn't it? We can never know how preventive war and interventionism will turn out, so our only moral option is to wage wars of justified self-defense. To do anything more is to gamble with people's lives, fortunes, and sacred honor.
    Last edited by ChildoftheProphets; 02-28-2010 at 01:59 PM. Reason: typo
    "In the opening and shutting of heaven's gate, are you able to play the feminine part?" -- Lao Tzu

    "For when the One Great Scorer comes
    To write against your name,
    He marks - not that you won or lost -
    But how you played the Game."
    -- Grantland Rice

    “Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” -- from The Catcher in the Rye

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do, and what a man can't do." -- Jack Sparrow

  3. #43
    Senior Member Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterk View Post
    Sometimes interventionism is necessary before things get out of hand. Just because Iraq turned out badly doesn't mean we shouldn't have done it.
    That's right, we should not have done it to begin with. There were no noble intentions when going in, stated maybe, but talk is cheap. War is a very serious thing that must not be taken lightly. Whenever a country goes to war, money, lives, and energy will all be devoted to destruction, and not just for the agressor. For too long now the U.S government, or at least certain forces in the Pentagon, have been inciting violence a little too eagerly.

    The result is that the world over hates the U.S, and our military is stretched thin. If we had all these troops in spots that are relevant to the homeland's defense, then the country would be a lot more secure. But no, they are scattered the world over. If an actual war did happen, then America will find her defenses preemptively comprimised by an undefined doctrine of preemptive war and interventionialism.

    The topic of this thread, with much foresight, points whats wrong with the quoted statement better than I could...

    Questions That Won't Be Asked About Iraq

  4. #44
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChildoftheProphets View Post
    Um, inflation may be small and under control, but it's not nonexistent.
    Inflation is existant and is not small in the US but is just reported inacurately as not being large. It is similar games/cons made secondary mortgage junk loans repackaged as AAA. In other words, the numbers and models are a twisted aberration to the truth.

    Those that report the numbers among other things play with yesterdays weights to reframe reality to keep governments leaders happy and the little people placated. Just going to the supermarket, the movies or the gas pump make this obvious despite the shell games reported results in the media that everything is wonderful. Its similar to Big Brother saying 2 and 2 do not equal 4.

    This is a good article illustrating the point. The Big Picture
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  5. #45
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Fuck, people. Why do we even have this dumbass preconceived notion that we need to be #1 at everything anyway?

    Every other country in the rule seems to be fine with not getting up on a moral high horse and feels as though its their duty to police the world, so why do we?

    If the U.S. isn't #1 militarily or economically, it won't be the end of the world. The invisible "bad guys" won't suddenly invade us, and we won't suddenly become defenseless. Get over it. If we change the system, and we're no longer "#1," then we don't deserve to be "#1." IMO, it's a shit ton better to be number 2 or 3 or even 4 compared to following a path to ruin at all costs.
    THANK YOU! You are my personal hero for being an American who thinks this way. (If you are an American, that is. And if you are not, you're still my personal hero for saying it).

  6. #46
    Senior Member ChildoftheProphets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Inflation is existant and is not small in the US but is just reported inacurately as not being large.
    It depends how far back you go to make the comparison. If you compare 2010 with 1910, then yes, inflation is staggering.

    What's the link about? (I don't have time to read a long article at the moment.)
    "In the opening and shutting of heaven's gate, are you able to play the feminine part?" -- Lao Tzu

    "For when the One Great Scorer comes
    To write against your name,
    He marks - not that you won or lost -
    But how you played the Game."
    -- Grantland Rice

    “Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” -- from The Catcher in the Rye

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do, and what a man can't do." -- Jack Sparrow

  7. #47
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Jonathan Rauch paints a pretty depressing portrait of the "populism" at play in the GOP nowadays. Not the Tea Partiers directly, but the response by the less coherent/intelligent members of the conservative Republican establishment.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #48
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChildoftheProphets View Post
    It depends how far back you go to make the comparison. If you compare 2010 with 1910, then yes, inflation is staggering.

    What's the link about? (I don't have time to read a long article at the moment.)
    Basically illustrating serious disconect between the Consumer Price Index and reality.

    Here are a few examples taken from a 2007 survey simply for illustrative purposes:

    • Since 2001, health premiums have risen 78%; Wages have gained 19% over the same period. CPI inflation measure? 17%.

    • Housing is the single-largest expense for most Americans -- as much as a third of total cash outlays. The Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics only tracks "owner's equivalent rent" (OER). Housing costs/Owners’ Equivalent Rent is 23.158% of CPI.

    • During the housing boom, OFHEO had housing prices increasing 13% per year; Non-government foundations had real estate taxes increasing about 6%; Over the same period, BLS measured ‘housing cost increases’ at 4% -- about half of its actual price increases.

    • Median real-estate taxes on owner-occupied housing went from $1,614 in 2005 to $1,742 in 2006, an increase of 7.93%. (That's more than double CPI inflation rate...and ‘Owners’ Equivalent Rent’ doesn’t account for real estate taxes.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  9. #49
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Jonathan Rauch paints a pretty depressing portrait of the "populism" at play in the GOP nowadays. Not the Tea Partiers directly, but the response by the less coherent/intelligent members of the conservative Republican establishment.
    Seems like they almost revel in their anti-intellectualism anti-academia these days. A present day William F. Buckley would be disgusted.

    And now they are being run by people so stupid they have to write "budget cuts" and "lift American spirits" on their hand. And that almost gives Palin street cred to them. Like, you have to prove how stupid you are to not be considered an elite.

  10. #50
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Seems like they almost revel in their anti-intellectualism anti-academia these days. A present day William F. Buckley would be disgusted.

    And now they are being run by people so stupid they have to write "budget cuts" and "lift American spirits" on their hand. And that almost gives Palin street cred to them. Like, you have to prove how stupid you are to not be considered an elite.

    I really hope Gary Johnson gets to debate a couple of Republitards and then Obama.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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