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  1. #71
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I wonder why anybody cares what political ideology this guy had.

    One liberal loon doesn't invalidate liberalism.

    One conservative loon doesn't invalidate conservatism.

    Why do you guys care to defend yourselves and your ideologies against this guy? Even if we can classify his political beliefs perfectly, it doesn't say anything about other people who share them, so who gives a shit?
    Because I think all agitators need to be accountable for the unconscienable outcomes of their agitation.

    Seeking change and being goal orientated is fine, I wouldnt fault that at all, not even when I disagree with the goals or the change people are looking for.

    However, when you create the climate or escalate conflict to the point were your grievance can be used as a flag of convenience by loons you cant just do a pontious pilot and wash your hands of it.

    I'm not spinning out abstractions here or trying to capitalise on this tragic/mad incident to bash a particular political ideology, ie anti-taxers, I'm from norhern ireland and I've seen the ways in which incendiary speeches, rallies, thinking can effectively "wind up" the crazies to do terrible things.

  2. #72
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Because I think all agitators need to be accountable for the unconscienable outcomes of their agitation.

    Seeking change and being goal orientated is fine, I wouldnt fault that at all, not even when I disagree with the goals or the change people are looking for.

    However, when you create the climate or escalate conflict to the point were your grievance can be used as a flag of convenience by loons you cant just do a pontious pilot and wash your hands of it.

    I'm not spinning out abstractions here or trying to capitalise on this tragic/mad incident to bash a particular political ideology, ie anti-taxers, I'm from norhern ireland and I've seen the ways in which incendiary speeches, rallies, thinking can effectively "wind up" the crazies to do terrible things.

    This is a load of nonsense. There is ONE person to blame for this incident, and it's the unhinged man who killed himself. If you read that note, you'll see that he blamed everyone else in the world BUT himself for his problems. When someone feels that aggrieved and persecuted, they can do stupid things without consideration for others. That's what happened here, and there is NO BLAME WHATSOEVER on anti-tax protesters. NONE.
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  3. #73
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomadic View Post
    yeah, but i mean, if someone is treated so unfairly that its like a case of living a life not worth living, then i kinda understand. this case doesn't seem like that though...



    i mean, if this guy had it in for the catholic church bc of some injustice done to him, he could have just targeted whoever did that injustice to him directly... i.e. some priest that molested him. but to target some federal tax people he probably never met seems kinda loony given the worse case scenario described in this letter... if he was so mad at some senator and arthur anderson exec, i mean, wouldn't some website showing the tax evasions on some website mailed to the perpetrator's family and friends sufficed? there's a lot of injustices in the world, but this guy just seems like he's on the lowest totem pole of complaints. come on man... what a spoiled whiner

    He named 27 entities / people etc in his letter that he either thought contributed to his situation or held contempt for. He never once indicated he had looked inward to see the at he himself might be part of the problem.

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  4. #74
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Because I think all agitators need to be accountable for the unconscienable outcomes of their agitation.

    Seeking change and being goal orientated is fine, I wouldnt fault that at all, not even when I disagree with the goals or the change people are looking for.

    However, when you create the climate or escalate conflict to the point were your grievance can be used as a flag of convenience by loons you cant just do a pontious pilot and wash your hands of it.

    I'm not spinning out abstractions here or trying to capitalise on this tragic/mad incident to bash a particular political ideology, ie anti-taxers, I'm from norhern ireland and I've seen the ways in which incendiary speeches, rallies, thinking can effectively "wind up" the crazies to do terrible things.
    I am curious who you think these "Agitators" are. Who is it you'd like to blame? You think this man isn't responsible for his own actions?

    Perhaps you aren't fully aware of the beliefs this country was founded on, so it would make sense. I think there are many in America that are tired of out of control government. Representatives are elected to REPRESENT US and yet they do not listen to those that elected them. Votes have been stolen, people are accepting forms of bribery, and others are basically paying for votes. Bills are being passed without being read. READ!

    I think that should irritate anyone no matter their ideology. This is what the "Tea Party's" are about. A bunch of people upset at the way government is being run - and they are protesting, and in addition trying to affect positive change.

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  5. #75
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexx View Post
    He named 27 entities / people etc in his letter that he either thought contributed to his situation or held contempt for. He never once indicated he had looked inward to see the at he himself might be part of the problem.
    hmm... ic. yea he definitely could have protested in other ways...

    “This law has ruined many people’s lives, hurt the technology industry, and discouraged the creation of small, independent businesses critical to a thriving domestic economy,” Mr. Shulman said in an interview Thursday. “That the law still exists — even after its original sponsors called for its repeal and unbiased studies proved it unfairly targeted a tax-compliant industry — shows just how dysfunctional and unresponsive Democratic and Republican Congresses and our political system have been, even on relatively simple issues.”
    so i guess what this guy did was he filed taxes as if this law didn't exist,

    Suicide Note of Joseph A. Stack III Cited 1986 Tax Law - NYTimes.com

    and then when the IRS went after him, he said screw it, and just did this suicide bombing/terrorist? act?

    well, i always thought it was the no more free options for tech companies new accounting rule that stifled innovation, but this law i guess provides another clue to why innovative technologies may have slowed down considerably in the US...

    but yeah, i mean, jeez, what i don't get is, is this the first time in the guy's life he felt unfair? i still can't believe he committed suicide over a tax law!!!

  6. #76
    Senior Member Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Because it's unfair to attribute political beliefs to someone who hasn't shown them at all. They were smearing Tea Partiers with the actions of someone who wasn't even part of their ranks, as far as we know. That is the tactic of the ethically and ideologically bankrupt.
    I find it sad and pathetic that the most significant voice of reason and objectivity in this thread is from an ESFJ (this is a type forum, but lets refrain from typing the topic of this thread). Rationals, and especially the INTP's are stereotypically supposed to be the masters of objective reasoning. Yet the OP, an INTP, is using this guilty until proven innocent ideology to smear a movement of which he is ignorant of and clearly biased against.

    The Tea Party is really three different organizations. The TP Express, TP Patriots, and TP Nation. Each of these are under different administrative styles, and mix with different leaders. There is also quite a bit of animosity between the three groups, and there are many who joined early but left later on after the GOP entered the scene. At the same time, when the TP first came into existence, it was about over-taxing, big government, and ignited by the bailouts. It was anti-two party system, and was against both Obama and Bush. Since then establishment hacks like Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich, and Sarah Palin have "joined" the movement and inserted other aspects such as GOP support and a neoconservative foreign policy.

    The Tea Party is one of the most amorphous and fractured political movements in American history. It is rife with internal divisions and constantly subject to external influences. One of the many claims in this thread is that all tea partiers are inherently crazy and not sane, when in actuality they are highly diverse and can't even agree on a single representative (MLK, Ghandi, ect.).

    I mentioned type here to illustrate a point. Saying that all INTP's are objective and reasonably minded is a very broad brush. Same applies to the discussion as to whether this nutjob is a tea partier.

    Bottom line is, the tea parties do not own a monopoly on anti-IRS sentiment and insanity. Not all people who hated the IRS are a part of the tea party, or are insane, and not all insane people are anti-IRS or a part of the tea party.

    Attempts to connect this kamikaze nut, who shows signs of severe frustration and alienation at the world in general, to any particular movement is a mode of corrupted reasoning...

  7. #77
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I find it sad and pathetic that the most significant voice of reason and objectivity in this thread is from an ESFJ (this is a type forum, but lets refrain from typing the topic of this thread). Rationals, and especially the INTP's are stereotypically supposed to be the masters of objective reasoning. Yet the OP, an INTP, is using this guilty until proven innocent ideology to smear a movement of which he is ignorant of and clearly biased against....

    Wow great post!


    Yeah - and an ENFP dissecting the letter line by line to understand and show others what he was talking about - what universe is this?

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  8. #78
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Because it's unfair to attribute political beliefs to someone who hasn't shown them at all. They were smearing Tea Partiers with the actions of someone who wasn't even part of their ranks, as far as we know. That is the tactic of the ethically and ideologically bankrupt.
    That's like indicting the Beatles for the crimes of Charles Manson. It seems so dumb as to not even warrant a response or any defense.

    Obviously the Tea Partiers do not advocate blowing up IRS buildings, so even if this guy had been a Tea Partier, it doesn't really say anything about the rest of the Tea Partiers, so again, who cares?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #79
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    That's like indicting the Beatles for the crimes of Charles Manson. It seems so dumb as to not even warrant a response or any defense.

    Obviously the Tea Partiers do not advocate blowing up IRS buildings, so even if this guy had been a Tea Partier, it doesn't really say anything about the rest of the Tea Partiers, so again, who cares?
    Because people DO care and DO believe that an act such as this does indicate the mentality of a whole group of people. It's either that or they are so blind with hate that they want to smear Tea Partiers as much as possible.

    How better to fight against principals that are different or you don't understand than with intellectual dishonesty? The truth isn't required.

    Just attach some crazy asshole to a group or people and BAM your work is done. Very effective, efficient and done often.

    I just think it's so funny. Anyone who reads that letter throughout can see where this guy falls on the political compass. He was a Socialistic Libertarian also known as a Anarchist Libertarian. The political compass doesn't just move left to right - but Authoritarian to Libertarian as well.

    I am a Libertarian and I sure as hell don't claim him, no one will.

    He did what he did because he was a piece of shit whiny wants-to-blame-everyone-but-himself asshole. No one is to blame but him.

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  10. #80
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Right, my point is that it doesn't matter who claims or doesn't claim him because his craziness doesn't automatically transfer over to everyone else who shares his political ideology, and anyone who thinks it does is a moron. So who cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexx View Post
    Because people DO care and DO believe that an act such as this does indicate the mentality of a whole group of people. It's either that or they are so blind with hate that they want to smear Tea Partiers as much as possible.
    So, people who think that are retarded. They're the same ones who look at bin Laden and think that every Muslim on the planet must be plotting terrorist attacks. It's just idiotic. I don't see the point in trying to appease those people.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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