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  1. #21
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    Have you been to East Germany? Socialism (we never had Communism in East Germany)
    Its amazing how every ostensible Communist country in the world is never "true" Communism, that oh-so-precious ideal which has never been properly implemented.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    While I do indeed disagree with the so-called 'neo-Nazi' mindset and find it greatly disturbing that they are monopolizing this issue, I think there is some important cultural/historical aspects to note here. As a great many of you are from the States, you probably consider it very normal to be able to discuss whatever you see fit however you see fit as long as no one is hurt.
    That's actually not true... we have some untouchable topics too. In the US, white people are not allowed to discuss race in any qualitative way.

  3. #23
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    Umm... what would you have done? Let the march happen in the name of open-mindedness and tolerance? What kind of headlines would that have generated around the world? "East Germany returns to its Nazi past", "East Germans not learning from history"

    And no one was acting like a facist, 10.000 people simply formed a human chain, in similar ways people protested in 1989 which led to the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of Communism in the Eastern Bloc. You can't label any sort of protest as an act of facism.
    Yes.

    It doesn't matter what the headlines say, its about raising to the occasion and being anti-Nazi in principle rather that applying similar tactics. The fact that the event of targeting noncombatants and bombing Dresden is bona fide concern that is being stifled almost makes the neoNazis look like the underdog good guys. What alternative does it allow them? Martre status of sorts? To be driven underground to plot a return of their influance?

    It sets a negative precedent. So its OK for others to act as physical blockades on public streets against other groups the government find defective or subnormal, to essentially kill speech by drowning it out. Will the neoNazis or anyone else now be justified by following suit of preventing peacefully marches.

    Perhaps if they were allowed the march Germany's social libertarians would be seen as choosing integrity of a principle or process over knee jerk reaction. Regardless how seen it would be closer to liberty for all as simply limited "to the right thinking people".

    In fact one would say the world would see the alternativ (of allowing peaceful marches access to their march route substantially unmolested) similarly to how they know the ACLU finds the KKK repugnant but regardless defends their right to march. See ACLU Defends KKK, Wins - Madison News Story - WISC Madison

    Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman. - Justice Louis D. Brandeis
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Its amazing how every ostensible Communist country in the world is never "true" Communism, that oh-so-precious ideal which has never been properly implemented.
    Well it's just a simple fact, we had Socialism and not Communism, these are two different ways of governing people.

    Of course you are only trying to make a snarky comment here anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Yes.

    It doesn't matter what the headlines say, its about raising to the occasion and being anti-Nazi in principle rather that applying similar tactics. The fact that the event of the bombing Dresden is bona fide concern that is being stifled almost makes the neoNazis look like the underdog good guys.

    It sets a negative precedent. So its OK for others to act as physical blockades, to essentially kill speech by drowning it out. Will the neoNazis or anyone else now be justified by following suit of preventing peacefully marches.

    Perhaps if they were allowed the march Germany's social libertarians would be seen as choosing integrity of a principle or process over knee jerk reaction. Regardless how seen it would be closer to liberty for all as simply limited "to the right thinking people".

    In fact one would say the world would see the alternativ (of allowing peaceful marches access to their march route substantially unmolested) similarly to how they know the ACLU finds the KKK repugnant but regardless defends their right to march. See ACLU Defends KKK, Wins - Madison News Story - WISC Madison

    Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman. - Justice Louis D. Brandeis
    Everyone in Germany knows about the bombings in Dresden and that the allies were getting revenge by killing many innocent German civilians who just happened to have the bad luck to be born in the wrong country at the wrong time. The neo-Nazis are not doing Germany any good by pointing that out, pretending that this fact is being hidden from the general population by the establishment, for heaven's sake we learnt about the Dresden bombings in school.

    The neo-Nazis are just trying to cause trouble and are looking for a flimsy reason to spread their messed-up ideology. These are the same kind of people who will congregate on 20th April in Berlin each year at the place where Hitler's bunker used to be and celebrate the birthday of our oh so amazing Führer. Seriously, how deluded can you be and why should the residents of Dresden have to put up with any of this nonsense.

  5. #25
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    The neo-Nazis are just trying to cause trouble and are looking for a flimsy reason to spread their messed-up ideology. These are the same kind of people who will congregate on 20th April in Berlin each year at the place where Hitler's bunker used to be and celebrate the birthday of our oh so amazing Führer. Seriously, how deluded can you be and why should the residents of Dresden have to put up with any of this nonsense.
    Being Roman Catholic I am not to thrilled with KKK marches in the states (i.e. they also hate papist ) but acting contrary to our enemies, even as to basic human dignities, is what truly defines us. The fact they are allowed to be seen in broad daylight actually make them look ridiculous regardless of their simple sneaky tactics and attempt to take some arguably valid positions (i.e. states rights) and twist them as their own instrument.

    I hate Nazis, but this motivates me to distinguish myself contrary to their tactics. To fight fascism with freedom not fascist tactics. Freedom of speech and thought is a superior tactic against them.

    Perhaps freedom of speech and assembly is a key value of mine. The thought I have put into it however confirms it is less about idealism and more about long term pragmatism.

    I respect your opinion and your feelings as to this touchy matter. It is your country so do as you will. Simply understand, good or bad, it sets a precedent in the world.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  6. #26
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    Well it's just a simple fact, we had Socialism and not Communism, these are two different ways of governing people.
    So where has national Communism actually been implemented, so that I can compare the two? The United States has a mixed economy, but its still a "capitalist" country for all intents and purposes.

    As for the rest, I agree with spamtar.

  7. #27
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    Something that always confuses me about WWII.

    The US partnered with the Communist, while Germany fought the Communist.

    That makes a lot of sense?

  8. #28
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    Something that always confuses me about WWII.

    The US partnered with the Communist, while Germany fought the Communist.

    That makes a lot of sense?
    And Germany partnered with the Communists before we did; the enemy of my enemy is my (temporary) friend.

  9. #29
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Hitler got paranoid, and turned on them, didn't he?
    Love is the point.

  10. #30
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Well, he was certainly paranoid, and he certainly turned on them, but the former was not the cause of the latter; acquiring "living space" at the expense of the Slavic east (aside from Poland, that is) was always part of his plan, the only uncertainty was the timing. Ultimately, he under-estimated the capacity and determination of the Russians to endure and resist, and went ahead with a war on two fronts at a moment of perceived Soviet weakness.

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