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  1. #51
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    I can't think of a single anti-intellectual movement in history that wasn't harmful to the people that harbored it.
    G.K. Chesterton was believed to be a superstitious, religious oaf for opposing the eugenics advocated by scientific progressives of his time. Planned Parenthood is an atavism of the eugenics movement here in the United States, and feticide, child destruction, or "abortion" if we must use a socialist euphemism is by definition harmful to the person being "aborted."

    The progressives today, of course, define the old national socialist worker's party in Germany as an internationalist capitalist individualist's movement. Progressives never own up to their own misdeeds-- those can be defined as not "really" progressive, just "really" right-wing. I've even seen the USSR defined as "state-capitalism." When abortion is looked upon as barbaric in a more civilized future, university professors will define that as "right-wing" too.

    Here's the reason why modern liberals are condescending. The look at the world, as see all of Man's attempts to get it right as leading to war, poverty, crime, et cetera. They conclude that it is the effort to think you're right which leads to trouble in the first place. Their Lennonism leads to Leninism-- imagine no countries, no property, no religion, and we'll all get on just fine.

    This non-ideology is an ideology in itself. Liberals don't believe they have an ideology, they believe they have the neutral, objective, scientific worldview. Everyone else is "extreme" for having ideas. It doesn't matter if the idea is true or false-- conservatives can be dismissed out of hand as blind sheep watching Faux News, unaware that the liberals are writing snooty books like "What's the Matter with Kansas?" Yeah, as if there are no Neanderthals on the left -- union thugs, race militants, slimy trial lawyers like John Edwards, environmentalists who hate science and technology, baby-killing feminazis -- all of these people don't exist in the imaginary higher moral plane.

    Don't kid yourselves.

  2. #52
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    A person who opposes intellectuals? Not necessarily a person who opposes intellect or the acquisition of knowledge. Perhaps he is just mocking them in their own territory of generalized ideology.
    Yeah, this. Intellectualism as a political movement seems to be about group-think and marginalizing people into groups that can be labeled and opposed as "outside the mainstream." Of course, you can always look like the "mainstream" one when you are the one who defines what is mainstream.
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  3. #53
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Do the people who think Obama is with the terrorists the same people who believe that 9/11 was an inside job?

    Cuz, you know, that would actually make sense as a belief.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #54
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    If I thought that was really true, I might become a Republican. I'm proud to be anti-intellectual.
    Anti-intellectual political movements are about exclusion, not inclusion. In order to be a Republican, you HAVE to be a war hawk, otherwise you're on the side of the terrorists. You HAVE to be pro-life, otherwise you're a baby killer. You HAVE to oppose tax increases, otherwise you're a crazy left-winger. You HAVE to support deregulation, otherwise you're a socialist. There is no honest debate, within the party, on these issues.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #55
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Yeah, this. Intellectualism as a political movement seems to be about group-think and marginalizing people into groups that can be labeled and opposed as "outside the mainstream." Of course, you can always look like the "mainstream" one when you are the one who defines what is mainstream.
    This is a false dichotomy. Anti-intellectual political movements don't necessarily oppose some sort of intellectual political movement, at least not like what you're describing. In the 20th century, some intellectual thought did lead to some horrible things (like eugenics), but that's not what's happening now. No one is proposing "death panels". "Death panels" is just a buzz word used to incite up the uninformed masses.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #56
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Do the people who think Obama is with the terrorists the same people who believe that 9/11 was an inside job?

    Cuz, you know, that would actually make sense as a belief.
    No, they tend to be on opposite sides of the political fence; that's exactly the point htb and I were making. Everybody has been too busy criticizing the Republican party to notice, which kinda illustrates the point of that article htb produced.

  7. #57
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    He's right, you cannot arrive at many of those positions by using critical thinking. That's part of the problem with the Republican party. It's anti-intellectual.
    This, unfortunately, does seem to be the case. I might have been a Republican 20 years ago, had I been old enough to understand anything about politics, but I certainly can't now.

    A large part of Bush's campaign strategy was to appeal to John Q. Public by demonizing intellectualism and associating it with haughty, stuck up, northeast elite liberalism. "We don't need none of them fancy professor types with their fancy college degrees and their big words! The only thing we need to make decisions is Jesus and our gut feelings!"

    And it worked. Problem is, it chased most of the intellectual conservatives out of the party, hence these hysterical poll results.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #58
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    G.K. Chesterton was believed to be a superstitious, religious oaf for opposing the eugenics advocated by scientific progressives of his time. Planned Parenthood is an atavism of the eugenics movement here in the United States, and feticide, child destruction, or "abortion" if we must use a socialist euphemism is by definition harmful to the person being "aborted."

    The progressives today, of course, define the old national socialist worker's party in Germany as an internationalist capitalist individualist's movement. Progressives never own up to their own misdeeds-- those can be defined as not "really" progressive, just "really" right-wing. I've even seen the USSR defined as "state-capitalism." When abortion is looked upon as barbaric in a more civilized future, university professors will define that as "right-wing" too.

    Here's the reason why modern liberals are condescending. The look at the world, as see all of Man's attempts to get it right as leading to war, poverty, crime, et cetera. They conclude that it is the effort to think you're right which leads to trouble in the first place. Their Lennonism leads to Leninism-- imagine no countries, no property, no religion, and we'll all get on just fine.

    This non-ideology is an ideology in itself. Liberals don't believe they have an ideology, they believe they have the neutral, objective, scientific worldview. Everyone else is "extreme" for having ideas. It doesn't matter if the idea is true or false-- conservatives can be dismissed out of hand as blind sheep watching Faux News, unaware that the liberals are writing snooty books like "What's the Matter with Kansas?" Yeah, as if there are no Neanderthals on the left -- union thugs, race militants, slimy trial lawyers like John Edwards, environmentalists who hate science and technology, baby-killing feminazis -- all of these people don't exist in the imaginary higher moral plane.

    Don't kid yourselves.
    So who counts as a liberal again?
    Who is lumped into the faceless category of liberalism?
    How is the distinction made?

    (I'm pretty sure I'd be lumped as a liberal because of my intellectual nature and voting record, but I know I don't identify with the term at all.) And in the work I'm starting to do with meeting with kids, sometimes under the auspices of Planned Parenthood, well... I'm pretty sure the people I met don't view themselves as proponents of eugenics. Etc.

    I feel like the main gist of this post fits right in with the slew of over-generalized junk some of us have been complaining about.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Who is "they" specifically? It seems you want to be purposefully vague so that no one can refute you. It's all "trust me, I just know, they don't do this." Well, I call BS.
    Here is an article written by a conservative on the issue if you care:

    Is Conservatism Brain-Dead?

    That is, if you care.

  10. #60
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Here is an article written by a conservative on the issue if you care:

    Is Conservatism Brain-Dead?

    That is, if you care.
    That doesn't answer the question that I asked you, but that article does definitely come from an elitist point of view that believes there's something wrong with populists dominating a political movement.
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