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  1. #101
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Just like the "birthers" are open to the possibility that Obama somehow faked his birth certificate, despite all evidence and common sense to the contrary?

    Reasonable people do not translate being theoretically open to an outlandish but not entirely inconceivable possibility with being either somewhat certain or "unsure" whether or not Bush was complicit in 9/11 or whether Obama faked his birth certificate.
    There's more evidence supporting the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate than there is evidence exonerating Bush. Obama hasn't hidden behind the shroud of "national security".
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #102
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    ...This seems to be an fact that could simply be confirmed by just checking for his birth certificate unless there is reliable evidence of official record tampering.
    That's sort of the problem.

    We do have the birth certificate.
    So now it "must have been faked" somehow.

    ...understand yet?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #103
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    There's more evidence supporting the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate than there is evidence exonerating Bush. Obama hasn't hidden behind the shroud of "national security".
    You want evidence to prove a negative? You have that backwards; you need evidence (which is lacking, to put it mildly) to prove a positive (Bush's hypothetical complicity in 9/11). It would be far easier (though by no means easy) to cover up a birth in a foreign country to an American mother decades ago than it would be to cover up a scandal of the magnitude suggested in the poll.

    Edit: Any comment on my broader point, or did you just wish to debate which paranoid conspiracy theory is slightly less implausible?
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 02-16-2010 at 04:31 PM. Reason: self-evident

  4. #104
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    You want evidence to prove a negative? You have that backwards; you need evidence (which is lacking, to put it mildly) to prove a positive (Bush's hypothetical complicity in 9/11). It would be far easier (though by no means easy) to cover up a birth in a foreign country to an American mother decades ago than it would be to cover up a scandal of the magnitude suggested in the poll.
    You've got it backwards. We're not talking about a court of law or a scientific process, we're talking about public perception.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #105
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You've got it backwards. We're not talking about a court of law or a scientific process, we're talking about public perception.
    Yes, the perception of reasonable people versus the paranoid perceptions revealed in those two polls.

  6. #106
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    It may just be me, but I find many of these Republican vs Democrat discussions about who's ruining America more to be comparable to a discussion between an Aussie and a Scotsman over who has the more annyoing English accent.

  7. #107
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It may just be me, but I find many of these Republican vs Democrat discussions about who's ruining America more to be comparable to a discussion between an Aussie and a Scotsman over who has the more annyoing English accent.
    Good metaphor, except for the fact a strong Scottish accent is not annoying at all, especially for a Frenchman's ear.
    While the Aussie one, on the other hand...
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #108
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It may just be me, but I find many of these Republican vs Democrat discussions about who's ruining America more to be comparable to a discussion between an Aussie and a Scotsman over who has the more annyoing English accent.
    The guy from Yonkers, that's who.

    otherwise... yeah.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #109
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    In terms of republicans (especially Tea Party people):

    Beware the power of stupid people in large groups.

    I've always been an advocate that there should be some objective way of weighting votes by intellectualism, such that those who garner the votes of more of the intelligent people should hold power.

    The idea that a redneck that thinks Obama is a Kenyan having the same voting power as Karen Finerman just doesn't sit perfectly well with me.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  10. #110
    Senior Member ubiquitous1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It may just be me, but I find many of these Republican vs Democrat discussions about who's ruining America more to be comparable to a discussion between an Aussie and a Scotsman over who has the more annyoing English accent.

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