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  1. #31
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    So in conclusion, I think it's a loaded term, and best not to use it.
    No, it perfectly describes industrialized nations in which all aspects of life are mandated, monitored and compelled by an intrusive state apparatus. North Korea is a manifest example; but the Soviet Union, Maoist China, Castroist Cuba, Ba'athist Iraq, Ba'athist Syria, Nasserite Egypt, Taliban Afghanistan, Burma and a few others all qualify on strong factual bases.

    Totalitarianism is to be distinguished from authoritarianism, in which state power is held and maintained outside of democratic or republican selection, but some basic liberties of the body public are either recognized or exercised de facto.

  2. #32
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    No, it perfectly describes industrialized nations in which all aspects of life are mandated, monitored and compelled by an intrusive state apparatus. North Korea is a manifest example; but the Soviet Union, Maoist China, Castroist Cuba, Ba'athist Iraq, Ba'athist Syria, Nasserite Egypt, Taliban Afghanistan, Burma and a few others all qualify on strong factual bases.

    Totalitarianism is to be distinguished from authoritarianism, in which state power is held and maintained outside of democratic or republican selection, but some basic liberties of the body public are either recognized or exercised de facto.
    But, is it true that the leaderships of those regimes strove for full control of public life? Cuba has been privatizing its economy step by step for years, so did the Soviet Union.

    I accept that the revolutions or social unrest prior to the coming to power of the regimes considered totalitarian, and the fact that they came to power based on promies to "the masses", forced them to monitor spheres which capitalism doesn't usually concern itself with. But generally, once such regimes have defeated the revolutionary threat, they move towards economic liberalization, to the long-term detriment of the majority.

    Showing that they do not strive for full control, but are forced into "totalitarian" measures to defend their priveliges. These are a means, not an end.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #33
    Playnerd Timeless's Avatar
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    Yes if it's this guy:


    No if it's this guy:

  4. #34
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    I share a libertarian ideology, so I hope there will be a world non-government. But realistically, there needs to be somebody to, at the very least, distributes a single currency, make sure there is peace and safety etc. Globalisation, I'm all up for it.

    But more realistically, there are too many different ideologies in the world at this time, so for the time being. I'm happier in the current Dutch political, social and economical situation then in a situation where we'd have to make concessions to Iranian or Indonesian culture for instance.
    (removed)

  5. #35
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The Three Civilizations

    There are three civilizations in the world today. The Chinese civilization, the Indian civilization and the Western civilization.

    These three have barely established a conversation. And when we do talk, the conversation tends to be rather rocky.

    Each one of us is confident and separate. And it is becoming plain that there is no multi-cultural civilization, just we three.

    It is interesting that India is one of the largest English speaking countries in the world. And China is determined to catch up with English. And of course English is lingua franca in the West.

    So in the future we will be able to talk to one another, but with a bias towards the West.

    But the three civilizations will never merge into one, and so will never form a Global Government.

  6. #36
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    Nope. No thanks.

    The bigger government is the less effective it becomes.

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexx View Post
    The bigger government is the less effective it becomes.
    We have nine parliamentary governments in Oz for twenty-one million Subjects.

    It is plain we are grossly over-governed. And we think that by collapsing nine parliamentary governments into one parliamentary government, we would have more effective government.

    But it is easier said than done.

  8. #38
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    There are three civilizations in the world today. The Chinese civilization, the Indian civilization and the Western civilization.

    These three have barely established a conversation. And when we do talk, the conversation tends to be rather rocky.

    Each one of us is confident and separate. And it is becoming plain that there is no multi-cultural civilization, just we three.

    It is interesting that India is one of the largest English speaking countries in the world. And China is determined to catch up with English. And of course English is lingua franca in the West.

    So in the future we will be able to talk to one another, but with a bias towards the West.

    But the three civilizations will never merge into one, and so will never form a Global Government.
    1/ I didn't know you suddenly converted to an extremely simplified version of Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations?
    That's frightening.

    2/ We cannot be sure that English will become the lingua franca of mankind. As a matter of fact, Chinese Mandarin may well become a tough competitor, especially because it is even simpler, and more spoken as a mother tongue.
    And Indian-English is only a peripheral phenomena which is not that deeply established. Any other lingua franca might do the trick. So far, what has prevented Hindi (40% of India use it as a first language, a number you have to compare with the 7% of Indians who have only notions of English) to become India's dominant language is only local or ethnic rivalry between the provinces. But with the development of India's popular entertainement industry and Bollywood, who knows, it might succeed!

    The future is not written yet.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    1/ I didn't know you suddenly converted to an extremely simplified version of Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations?
    That's frightening.

    2/ We cannot be sure that English will become the lingua franca of mankind. As a matter of fact, Chinese Mandarin may well become a tough competitor, especially because it is even simpler, and more spoken as a mother tongue.
    And Indian-English is only a peripheral phenomena which is not that deeply established. Any other lingua franca might do the trick. So far, what has prevented Hindi (40% of India use it as a first language, a number you have to compare with the 7% of Indians who have only notions of English) to become India's dominant language is only local or ethnic rivalry between the provinces. But with the development of India's popular entertainement industry and Bollywood, who knows, it might succeed!

    The future is not written yet.
    1/ A frisson of fear tickles our Parisian.

    2/ And you are quite right, history is not written yet, and no one can predict the future, so I am an advocate and an urger.

    But consider, science is written mostly in English. You can't be a scientist without being able to read and write English. And science is just not going to go away.

    And it concatenates from there. Most international business is conducted in English. Popular culture is largely in English.

    On the other hand, Mandarin is too hard to learn and Hindi barely reaches into the diaspora.

    French on the other hand, that perfection of Latin, has been our lingua franca for a millennium. If only French, the language of diplomacy, would grace our lips once again, we would, once again, be graceful.

    But in the absence of grace, we shall be barked at by an English mongrel.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I didn't know you suddenly converted to an extremely simplified version of Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations?
    If you accept that there are three civilizations extant today, then what about Islam, sub-Saharin Africa, and Russia?

    Russia is easy to dispose of as the religion of Russia is Russian Orthodox and so is firmly in the Christian camp. And so is firmly Western.

    Islam, in my opinion, is not a civilization but a political religion, and in fact an Abrahamic religion like Judaism and Christianity. So I would put Islam firmly in Western civilization.

    Sub-Saharin Africa is a little more difficult, but even with the industrial state of South Africa, I find it difficult to see the bottom half of Africa as a civilization. However it has been colonized by the West. So I would include them in Western civilization.

    So in facing both China and India our first duty is to unite the West. This means reaching a settlement with Russia, Islam and sub-Saharin Africa.

    And such a settlement may only be possible as China and India exert their power.

    So the unity of the West may depend upon China and India.

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