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Thread: Racism

  1. #71
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    To be fair Halle Berry is half white.. And Beyonce has Creole family, so some white too. Rhianna has some white as well.

    So umm.. basically, while they are beautiful black women in their own right, they're not exactly a "standard", technically speaking. They are more like examples of beautiful mixed women.

    That all said, good points for the most part.

  2. #72
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    To be fair Halle Berry is half white.. And Beyonce has Creole family, so some white too. Rhianna has some white as well.

    So umm.. basically, while they are beautiful black women in their own right, they're not exactly a "standard", technically speaking. They are more like examples of beautiful mixed women.

    That all said, good points for the most part.
    Exactly. That is the whole point. Half-white women are considered attractive, but not women whose parents are both black.

    Try and find a '100/50/20 most beautiful celebrities' list that has a black woman in it that isn't mixed race. Its a struggle...

  3. #73
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I couldn't decide whether to put this here or in Philosophy whatnot but it seemed slightly more appropriate here. Anyway, it matters little.

    I was raised in a pretty racist atmosphere. Racial epithets were used freely. Attitudes were staunchly negative towards black people. Conversations got really uncomfortable after my and my brother's bikes were stolen from the bike rack in front of the pool we belonged to, which was racially segregated. This was in the 80s by the way, not the 50s or 60s.

    It never felt right to me but I didn't say much about it until I was a teen. Then I started getting mad and refusing to speak to my family if they used racist language. It became a family joke. They all had a good laugh about what an impetuous young idealist I was, and how when I got out into the real world I would understand why they felt the way they did.

    Fast forward to now. I think I've been in the real world as a grownup for a few years (though maybe I'm not completely there yet) but it still bothers me when people reveal their racist attitudes. But sometimes it feels like the stakes are too high for me to speak up. It occurs to me that staying silent is nearly as bad as having the attitudes myself.

    Lately I've been reading books and blogs (such as stuff white people do) about race and privilege, and about being an anti-racism ally. It has been pretty eye-opening. I know that although my intentions are good, the environment in which I was raised and just being super-white myself have blinded me to some of the more subtle kinds of racism that still exist. When I talk about race and the conversation partners are not all white, I get nervous about saying the wrong thing. It becomes all about me, rather than all about listening to their experiences and shifting the focus off of myself. (Hell, I even start threads about racism that are mostly about myself on forums, how self-centered is that?)

    Not sure what my goal in starting this thread is. I guess I'd like to open a dialogue (civil) about race. My frame of reference is the US (and mostly in the South) but I'm interested in how things are in the rest of the world as well. And I guess partly I started the thread to come out as not having fully excised my own racism, as a mechanism to keep striving for that.

    All thoughts welcome, as long as they're civil.
    I was also raised in a racist atmosphere.
    Finland is the most xenophobic and racist country in Europe.

    Your experience is not different of mine.

    Finland is a closed and distant farming community.
    The farm house is surrounded only by the fields.

    In Europe on the other hand, all the fields surround a cluster of farm houses.
    It is called a village.

    I live in a Swedish part of the land. It is therefore I live in a village.
    A village is an unknown entity in the Finnish Finland.

    The Swedes created the village. The village became a town.
    In Finland, the Swedes are the original townspeople.

    The Swedes of Finland are not xenophobic. They have met other people.
    The Finns encounter a culture shock today. They meet other people, too.
    Therefore their racism is more rampant than ever.

    The situation is not entirely different in North Carolina.
    Now you come to terms with the xenos. So do we.

    You are a way ahead of us.

  4. #74
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    To be fair Halle Berry is half white.. And Beyonce has Creole family, so some white too. Rhianna has some white as well.

    So umm.. basically, while they are beautiful black women in their own right, they're not exactly a "standard", technically speaking. They are more like examples of beautiful mixed women.

    That all said, good points for the most part.
    It is not only Halle Berry.

    The slave owners in the South sexually abused their female slaves.
    A perfect illustration of the deceptive nature of statistics is the study of the haplogroup.

    According to haplogroup samples, African Americans are more African than European.
    Of course.

    A linear model is not wrong per se.
    It does constitute a part.
    Not the end.

  5. #75
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    That isn't necessarily the case on some wide scale though (not sure if you're saying that). It's almost impossible to tell how much intermixing went on in those days. I'd say though that if we look at people from countries where many slaves apparently came from (like Ghana, Angola, etc..), they resemble many African Americans, and that mixing might be overstated.

    And I wouldn't compare Halle to that either. People like her with a white parent and black parent are still pretty rare, and kind of part of a newer "statistic".

  6. #76
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    I can relate to your not wanting to feel ostracized. I often feel when I engage (albeit reluctantly) in conversation with white people about race, institutional racism, and white privilege that I don't have much ground to stand on because most of the time I'm discredited because I am a person of color - I'm not deemed impartial.
    Ideas like institutional racism and white privilege are unfamiliar to many whites, I think. I had the opportunity to encounter the ideas when I was taking a multi-cultural class. It helped me because it was presented systematically and with references and examples. Also, one of our first assignments was to write a paper on how white privilege had affected our life. Since that time, I've tried to figure out how to communicate it in briefer segments as you often find in conversation. Threads like this help, and your explanations help.

    What happens with people who benefit from white privilege, but don't see it, is that they focus on their own experience. The majority of people feel somehow dismissed or that they ended up with an unfair situation. It is easy to initially react to the idea they have actually been privileged by pushing back in an attempt to have their own struggles validated. And from the information they have gathered and perceived about life, their conclusions are "correct" (if what they perceived actually reflected a holistic picture of reality). The problem is that white privilege by its nature dismisses a great deal of information. One key to helping people understand is to find some way for their own struggles to not feel dismissed. I can remember even for myself having grown up somewhat poor and having seen family members mistreated, that I felt a bit chaffed by this idea that I somehow had it "easy". When I broke everything down I could see that while there were setbacks, there were advantages as well. That is one thing I noticed in "The Color of Fear" documentary because the white man who was most resistant to seeing his own privilege turned out to have an abusive father. There are many instances in which the culture that oppresses externally also oppresses internally. That can instill a sense of victimization that accompanies the sense of privilege. It is that combination that inflates a sense of entitlement.

    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    However, I think you could possibly look at your situation differently. You could try using your privilege to your advantage in this case. As I see it, your co-workers would be much more willing to try and understand from you why racist jokes, racist E-mails, and other forms of racism are unacceptable and not "just fun" because you're white instead of from a person of color. Here, you can speak for those who are silenced and can't speak for themselves.
    You are right here. I struggle to speak up in various situations myself, like Ivy has mentioned. My family and friends are kind-hearted people, but the fears of racism have affected them, and also myself. I don't consciously embrace any aspect of it, but it is a bitter pill to see just how much everything including myself is affected by it.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #77
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    Well, I can first point out that everywhere I've lived, I've been pointed out because of my race. And not always in the nice way.

    I'm half Spanish from Spain, then have some Irish, German, and Jewish in me. (Dad's a full Spaniard & mom's a half Jew with the irish and german in her.)

    Anyway, when I lived in Kansas, Oklahoma and Missouri, I was made fun of for being hispanic. I cant tell you how many times people made fun of me for that.
    But, when I moved to the border of Mexico (Laredo Texas), I was the center of racist jeering still. This time, they made fun of me because my skin is white. I also had people tell me that I was a Jew killer, and at the same time I had others tell me that I was a stupid Jew (because I have a bit of Jewish and German blood in me).

    After awhile it soothed over after I moved from that city to Mcallen Texas. So I had 3 years where I wasn't picked on for those reasons. But I just moved to Branson Missouri, I cannot tell you how horrible it is to here the way the people talk about hispanics here. I'm now able to not get hurt over it, but I'm offended because those are my people that they're calling dirty and spitting on. It's come to the point where I don't care, I WILL say something if someone has something to say against any specific race.
    See but you're not hispanic by US racial classification, because by "hispanic" is meant latin america, mexico, etc. etc.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #78
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    - The view of beauty in african american women is based on white standards. The more white their features are, the more attractive they are considered. You only have to look at which black women are considered beautiful by the general (white) public: Beyonce, Halle Berry, Rhiannah, Tyra Banks etc. Almost always their features are closer to those of white women than those of most black women: thinner nose, straight hair, lighter skin, stick thin figure etc. Its like darker african american women can't be beautiful on their own terms. Not cool.
    ^Reminds me of this blog:
    The most beautiful black women according to black people
    The most beautiful black women according to white people
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  9. #79
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post

    Hipsters, and hipsterdom, are the ultimate expression of white privilege, which is what the author is making fun of.
    Could you expand on this, please.

    Also, if white people have no power to define what racism is, then how do we have the power stop it?



  10. #80
    Sniffles
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    I honestly don't understand what's so shocking about white people tending to prefer black women who look "white".

    So it seems Blacks and Whites tend to agree on this issue.

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