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Thread: Racism

  1. #161
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I was raised in a pretty racist atmosphere. Racial epithets were used freely. Attitudes were staunchly negative towards black people. Conversations got really uncomfortable after my and my brother's bikes were stolen from the bike rack in front of the pool we belonged to, which was racially segregated. This was in the 80s by the way, not the 50s or 60s.

    It never felt right to me but I didn't say much about it until I was a teen. Then I started getting mad and refusing to speak to my family if they used racist language. It became a family joke. They all had a good laugh about what an impetuous young idealist I was, and how when I got out into the real world I would understand why they felt the way they did.
    I relate to all of this. I have never been comfortable with racist comments. My family rolled their eyes but I would really get on their case for being stupid. I'm no different today.

    Fast forward to now. I think I've been in the real world as a grownup for a few years (though maybe I'm not completely there yet) but it still bothers me when people reveal their racist attitudes. But sometimes it feels like the stakes are too high for me to speak up. It occurs to me that staying silent is nearly as bad as having the attitudes myself.
    If someone around me were to say certain things I'd lay into them. If they don't like it they can go fuck themselves.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  2. #162
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Most recently, I am concerned about the racist/ignorant attitude toward Muslims. It's sickening. They are not all terrorists; is that somehow extremely hard to understand? In the News today, they were reporting that Muslims have to tone down their celebration for Ramadan because it falls on 9/11. And they are anxious about the tension over the mosque being built in NYC and possible hate crimes. There are Muslims who hate the US, yes, but there are also Muslims who are just like everyone else and had nothing to do with 9/11. In fact, they suffered as well (tens of thousand times worse) when our country decided to go to war in the Middle East. I don't know what people are smoking.

    Well, ok, I do know what they are smoking.

    I witness myself the origins of racism with my parents. They never received advanced education. Their view of the country, of the world is sheltered and isolated. They're not bad people but I have been upset with them many times over their comments. They have all these ideas about black people, white people, spanish people - and they make my eyes pop out of my sockets.

    My college roommate grew up in the South, is black and somehow got the wrong idea about Islam. My other close friend from the South dated a white guy but she does not fully support gay people. She won't deter gay people from marrying but she does not support them. I was like ... wtf, either you do or you don't. Choosing the middle way is crap.

    Racism, prejudice - it happens to good people, the very best people because of false information, one's own religion, local atmosphere ... How do we solve these issues?

    Wide spread knowledge about acceptance and tolerance but even so, people pick and choose what to believe and support.

  3. #163
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Would racism be a lack of capability in a person? The capability to deal with difference constructively and without knee jerk reactions?

    That would of course differ from being raised a racist where you have to struggle to lift the coloured veil which has been sewn over your eyes to see how the veil does alter your perceptions. In other words, upon meeting one of those scary black men, investigate what they're like as a person and compare and contrast it to your preconception. Same as learning anything, dumb is doing the same thing wrong the same way twice.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Most recently, I am concerned about the racist/ignorant attitude toward Muslims. It's sickening. They are not all terrorists; is that somehow extremely hard to understand? In the News today, they were reporting that Muslims have to tone down their celebration for Ramadan because it falls on 9/11. And they are anxious about the tension over the mosque being built in NYC and possible hate crimes. There are Muslims who hate the US, yes, but there are also Muslims who are just like everyone else and had nothing to do with 9/11. In fact, they suffered as well (tens of thousand times worse) when our country decided to go to war in the Middle East. I don't know what people are smoking.

    Well, ok, I do know what they are smoking.

    I witness myself the origins of racism with my parents. They never received advanced education. Their view of the country, of the world is sheltered and isolated. They're not bad people but I have been upset with them many times over their comments. They have all these ideas about black people, white people, spanish people - and they make my eyes pop out of my sockets.

    My college roommate grew up in the South, is black and somehow got the wrong idea about Islam. My other close friend from the South dated a white guy but she does not fully support gay people. She won't deter gay people from marrying but she does not support them. I was like ... wtf, either you do or you don't. Choosing the middle way is crap.

    Racism, prejudice - it happens to good people, the very best people because of false information, one's own religion, local atmosphere ... How do we solve these issues?

    Wide spread knowledge about acceptance and tolerance but even so, people pick and choose what to believe and support.
    My sister was married to a Muslim and divorced him as quickly as possible. She didn't like what she learned about his religion and culture after she married him. I have to say that I'm not really a big fan of some Islamic beliefs, and to me it's in a similar category as Scientology as "religions I'm never gonna fully respect." In fact, the more I learned about these religions, the less open-minded I was, ironically. Sort of like my sister.

    I think it's okay to not like certain cultures and religions. That's not the same thing as racism, and I'm sure you're referring to Arabic people being classified as terrorists, which I agree is racist and wrong.

    There's something that exists called nationalism, which means that one strongly prefers one's country over others to the point of thinking that others are inferior. This is different than racism, and I think it may be what Ivy is talking about.

  5. #165
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    My sister was married to a Muslim and divorced him as quickly as possible. She didn't like what she learned about his religion and culture after she married him. I have to say that I'm not really a big fan of some Islamic beliefs, and to me it's in a similar category as Scientology as "religions I'm never gonna fully respect." In fact, the more I learned about these religions, the less open-minded I was, ironically. Sort of like my sister.

    I think it's okay to not like certain cultures and religions. That's not the same thing as racism, and I'm sure you're referring to Arabic people being classified as terrorists, which I agree is racist and wrong.

    There's something that exists called nationalism, which means that one strongly prefers one's country over others to the point of thinking that others are inferior. This is different than racism, and I think it may be what Ivy is talking about.
    I agree, disliking Islam has nothing to do with racism. I don't however feel there's any reason to be more prejudiced against it than Christianity, broadly speaking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I agree, disliking Islam has nothing to do with racism. I don't however feel there's any reason to be more prejudiced against it than Christianity, broadly speaking.
    The way that they treat their women, and this little gem

    "The concept of 72 virgins in Islam refers to an aspect of paradise. In a collection by Imam at-Tirmidhi in his "Sunan" (Volume IV, Chapters on "The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah", chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Heaven", hadith 2687) and also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Qur'an 55:72, it is stated that:

    "It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard Muhammad saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.[65]"

    is why I am much more prejudiced against it than Christianity or Judaism.

  7. #167
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    The way that they treat their women, and this little gem
    It's all about some particular group decides to interpret it. Need I remind you that not even 1000 years ago the Muslim world was much more progressive than the Christian one?

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    "The concept of 72 virgins in Islam refers to an aspect of paradise. In a collection by Imam at-Tirmidhi in his "Sunan" (Volume IV, Chapters on "The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah", chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Heaven", hadith 2687) and also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Qur'an 55:72, it is stated that:

    "It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard Muhammad saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.[65]"

    is why I am much more prejudiced against it than Christianity or Judaism.
    I use to run through the Old Testament and New Testament with a highlighter to mark the most ridiculous passages I could find. Perhaps you should check those books again, becaue they are loaded with equally ludicrous stuff.

    Here you go, one of my favorites:
    Deuteronomy 23:1 "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD." Hey guys, injured in your private parts? Forget about heaven or God's eternal love.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's all about some particular group decides to interpret it. Need I remind you that not even 1000 years ago the Muslim world was much more progressive than the Christian one?
    But what matters to me is the world that I live in right now.


    I use to run through the Old Testament and New Testament with a highlighter to mark the most ridiculous passages I could find. Perhaps you should check those books again, becaue they are loaded with equally ludicrous stuff.

    Here you go, one of my favorites:
    Deuteronomy 23:1 "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD." Hey guys, injured in your private parts? Forget about heaven or God's eternal love.
    They think they get 72 virgins in heaven. I won't ever be able to accept that with a straight face.

    The Biblical passage, on the other hand, could be interpreted to mean someone who had been castrated in punishment for rape, not someone who just accidently wounded their penis.

  9. #169
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    But what matters to me is the world that I live in right now.
    But the things that bother you now actually have relatively little to do with Christianity, or Islam, or any of those other faiths in an inherent way. It's not really about them. And boy I can find some Christians with really insane ideas, and Muslims who seem quite rationale. The best I could grant you is that maybe the madness leans toward Islam right now (and I can't say for sure that's true). Even that would sound kind of weak.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    They think they get 72 virgins in heaven. I won't ever be able to accept that with a straight face.

    The Biblical passage, on the other hand, could be interpreted to mean someone who had been castrated in punishment for rape, not someone who just accidently wounded their penis.
    Pshhh. I can interpret it all to mean whatever I want it to.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    But the things that bother you now actually have relatively little to do with Christianity, or Islam, or any of those other faiths in an inherent way. It's not really about them. And boy I can find some Christians with really insane ideas, and Muslims who seem quite rationale. The best I could grant you is that maybe the madness leans toward Islam right now (and I can't say for sure that's true). Even that would sound kind of weak.
    I think the things that bother me are inherently to do with Islam, yes, I do. Though any religion can be twisted, that much is true.


    Pshhh. I can interpret it all to mean whatever I want it to.
    As can I, which is why it's pointless to argue with me about this.

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