User Tag List

First 41213141516 Last

Results 131 to 140 of 212

Thread: Racism

  1. #131
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This is not what I was talking about, at all.
    What were you saying?
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  2. #132
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    I'm inclined to believe universality, in the contex we're using it, is completely abstract. I keep an open mind, however.
    No doubt the context it's being used certainly does make this notion of a single standardized conception of beauty an illusion, but one must also avoid going in the opposite extreme of claiming universality is an illusion altogether. As pure_mercury, you find general themes in different cultures' ideals of beauty. How those themes manifest themselves certainly does differ from culture to culture, but they're still present universally.

  3. #133
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    I find that poor whites in racially mixed worker communities aren't prejudice against blacks or blacks against whites, but that they are united in their prejudice against illegal, non-english speaking south/central americans. What do you make of that?
    My experience is that's true, until the last black leaves the room. I still hear comments that make my hair curl.

  4. #134
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I couldn't decide whether to put this here or in Philosophy whatnot but it seemed slightly more appropriate here. Anyway, it matters little.

    I was raised in a pretty racist atmosphere. Racial epithets were used freely. Attitudes were staunchly negative towards black people. Conversations got really uncomfortable after my and my brother's bikes were stolen from the bike rack in front of the pool we belonged to, which was racially segregated. This was in the 80s by the way, not the 50s or 60s.

    It never felt right to me but I didn't say much about it until I was a teen. Then I started getting mad and refusing to speak to my family if they used racist language. It became a family joke. They all had a good laugh about what an impetuous young idealist I was, and how when I got out into the real world I would understand why they felt the way they did.

    Fast forward to now. I think I've been in the real world as a grownup for a few years (though maybe I'm not completely there yet) but it still bothers me when people reveal their racist attitudes. But sometimes it feels like the stakes are too high for me to speak up. It occurs to me that staying silent is nearly as bad as having the attitudes myself.

    Lately I've been reading books and blogs (such as stuff white people do) about race and privilege, and about being an anti-racism ally. It has been pretty eye-opening. I know that although my intentions are good, the environment in which I was raised and just being super-white myself have blinded me to some of the more subtle kinds of racism that still exist. When I talk about race and the conversation partners are not all white, I get nervous about saying the wrong thing. It becomes all about me, rather than all about listening to their experiences and shifting the focus off of myself. (Hell, I even start threads about racism that are mostly about myself on forums, how self-centered is that?)

    Not sure what my goal in starting this thread is. I guess I'd like to open a dialogue (civil) about race. My frame of reference is the US (and mostly in the South) but I'm interested in how things are in the rest of the world as well. And I guess partly I started the thread to come out as not having fully excised my own racism, as a mechanism to keep striving for that.

    All thoughts welcome, as long as they're civil.
    I actually read about this in an economics book.

    It isn't as simple as someone saying "ewww his skin is such and such a color".

    It's about a certain class of people being associated with certain characteristics that are very neatly wrapped up by their physical features, the most prominent being the color of their skin.

    So when someone hears about a black man murdering another in southwest Philadelphia or a Mid-Eastern terrorist plot foiled or whatnot, that simply strengthens the existing beliefs.

    Heck, it's not even skin color. Before 9/11, what did you think of a woman wearing a burqa? Probably nothing other than she looked weird. Nowadays? You probably associate that burqa with some not-so-nice things.

    And because these people are subconsciously discriminated against, they stick among their communities, and in fact, actively alienate, in some cases, people who act like those outside their communities. In the book freakonomics, black kids who were studying calculus were alienated in their communities.

    So in the end, it's a cycle. Stereotype begets lack of opportunity, lack of opportunity begets perpetuating stereotype.

    Now some people are just blatantly racist. I'm not condoning those. But, it's a lot deeper than "discriminating against skin color".
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  5. #135
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I couldn't decide whether to put this here or in Philosophy whatnot but it seemed slightly more appropriate here. Anyway, it matters little.

    I was raised in a pretty racist atmosphere. Racial epithets were used freely. Attitudes were staunchly negative towards black people. Conversations got really uncomfortable after my and my brother's bikes were stolen from the bike rack in front of the pool we belonged to, which was racially segregated. This was in the 80s by the way, not the 50s or 60s.

    It never felt right to me but I didn't say much about it until I was a teen. Then I started getting mad and refusing to speak to my family if they used racist language. It became a family joke. They all had a good laugh about what an impetuous young idealist I was, and how when I got out into the real world I would understand why they felt the way they did.

    Fast forward to now. I think I've been in the real world as a grownup for a few years (though maybe I'm not completely there yet) but it still bothers me when people reveal their racist attitudes. But sometimes it feels like the stakes are too high for me to speak up. It occurs to me that staying silent is nearly as bad as having the attitudes myself.

    Lately I've been reading books and blogs (such as stuff white people do) about race and privilege, and about being an anti-racism ally. It has been pretty eye-opening. I know that although my intentions are good, the environment in which I was raised and just being super-white myself have blinded me to some of the more subtle kinds of racism that still exist. When I talk about race and the conversation partners are not all white, I get nervous about saying the wrong thing. It becomes all about me, rather than all about listening to their experiences and shifting the focus off of myself. (Hell, I even start threads about racism that are mostly about myself on forums, how self-centered is that?)

    Not sure what my goal in starting this thread is. I guess I'd like to open a dialogue (civil) about race. My frame of reference is the US (and mostly in the South) but I'm interested in how things are in the rest of the world as well. And I guess partly I started the thread to come out as not having fully excised my own racism, as a mechanism to keep striving for that.

    All thoughts welcome, as long as they're civil.
    All I wanted to say is a sincere kudos to you for taking it upon yourself to deconstruct your own white privilege and try to see beyond the world view your immediate known context.

    It's an extremely uncomfortable and non-linear process to really think about one's own privilege and the larger context of things, complicity, [i]systemic[/] oppression, etc. whether it's around gender/sex, class, being able bodied, etc. And the 'virtue' of privilege is that you don't *have* to examine your own privilege or even be AWARE of it let alone deconstruct it or try to dismantle it.

    I understand being uncomfortable and self-conscious, I can sympathize.

    For practical help, I don't know if it was already suggested but have you read "Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack"?

    I appreciate your assessment that it becomes "all about me" - I think that is a symptom and a stage of the 'guilt' part of first dealing with privilege or just being highly uncomfortable with 'not knowing'. Some might say it's also an outcropping of white privilege but I wouldn't let that phase you or make you even more self-conscious. I think being aware of that hyper self-consciousness is a huge step towards eventually getting comfortable. I think especially around whiteness, PCness in America has had the opposite effect of encouraging dialogue and actually shuts people up.

    Fear is a huge impediment towards really understanding or breaching that wall. I have to say honestly, I have compassion for white people who really want to 'get it'. I've only seen white people in overlapping academic (high theory) and activist circles even attempt it. I think it takes a level of bravery to head out into 'the unknown' and often seemingly hostile world you're heading into.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  6. #136
    mrs disregard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7,855

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    I find that poor whites in racially mixed worker communities aren't prejudice against blacks or blacks against whites, but that they are united in their prejudice against illegal, non-english speaking south/central americans. What do you make of that?
    If three races do the same work, but only two pay taxes, it's bound to happen.

  7. #137
    Senior Member Bri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    While I've been watching this thread with interest, I find myself having difficulty relating, so I'm just trying to absorb. Which I suppose is unsurprising, considering I cannot relate to most people, either. Where I grew up [Connecticut suburbs], and in my socioeconomic class, I never noticed racism very much. Because of this, I tended to associate stereotypes and prejudices to culture and upbringing, more than race. For a long time I thought racism wasn't a problem anymore because I couldn't find it, but now I think it's more because I have no idea where to look, or how it can really manifest.
    ^This, for the most part.
    As a majority member, it's weird to imagine needing to define myself as anything other than... myself. I don't have to worry about being a representative for a culture or color (I'm privileged, I get that), and thus it's weird to me that other people seem to purposefully act they way they *think* their race is supposed to act instead of just being who they are. I notice it mostly from young people who're still trying to find their identity, and it looks very similar to the white kid who's trying on the 'Goth' moniker, it just comes off as fake. I don't know how to phrase it, and it's all very naive and ignorant of me, I realize. I guess I just wish everyone could be authentic, and that their authenticity would be respected... and puberty sucks. :redface:

  8. #138
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    7,004

    Default

    Racism is pointless it seems. It's illogical and useless, and serves no real purpose. If someone that isn't your race is an asshole to you, then it's because they are an asshole. It's not that their skin is a certain color. God people are so stupid.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  9. #139
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    All I wanted to say is a sincere kudos to you for taking it upon yourself to deconstruct your own white privilege and try to see beyond the world view your immediate known context.

    It's an extremely uncomfortable and non-linear process to really think about one's own privilege and the larger context of things, complicity, [i]systemic[/] oppression, etc. whether it's around gender/sex, class, being able bodied, etc. And the 'virtue' of privilege is that you don't *have* to examine your own privilege or even be AWARE of it let alone deconstruct it or try to dismantle it.

    I understand being uncomfortable and self-conscious, I can sympathize.

    For practical help, I don't know if it was already suggested but have you read "Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack"?

    I appreciate your assessment that it becomes "all about me" - I think that is a symptom and a stage of the 'guilt' part of first dealing with privilege or just being highly uncomfortable with 'not knowing'. Some might say it's also an outcropping of white privilege but I wouldn't let that phase you or make you even more self-conscious. I think being aware of that hyper self-consciousness is a huge step towards eventually getting comfortable. I think especially around whiteness, PCness in America has had the opposite effect of encouraging dialogue and actually shuts people up.

    Fear is a huge impediment towards really understanding or breaching that wall. I have to say honestly, I have compassion for white people who really want to 'get it'. I've only seen white people in overlapping academic (high theory) and activist circles even attempt it. I think it takes a level of bravery to head out into 'the unknown' and often seemingly hostile world you're heading into.
    Thanks for the article, CzeCze!

    I think you're right, too, that it's important to plunge in and talk about stuff without letting the fear of saying the wrong thing stop the discussion. That is exactly why I started this thread. I have written and deleted so many posts on the topic of race on this forum alone, because I worried about offending someone unintentionally. Lately, I've been thinking that offending people isn't the worst thing in the world- sometimes conflict leads to getting air into the system and fresh perspectives. So forging ahead, saying things, being wrong, revising my thoughts- that is what will help.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #140
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Who cares if someone's offended? Poor baby, someone inadvertently said something not nice. Get up, thicken skin please.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

Similar Threads

  1. Racism and MBTI
    By Mole in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-04-2012, 10:36 PM
  2. Can we connect philosophy with racism?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-05-2009, 11:22 PM
  3. Scientific Racism & Racial Theory
    By Ezra in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 02-25-2009, 03:48 AM
  4. Racism (split from "I'm voting Republican" thread.)
    By wildcat in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 191
    Last Post: 08-03-2008, 11:40 AM
  5. Prejudice, bigotry, racism, and sexism...
    By Kiddo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 10-26-2007, 11:37 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO