User Tag List

First 21011121314 Last

Results 111 to 120 of 212

Thread: Racism

  1. #111
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't think guys are always 100% honest with each other about who gives them boners. For example, what guy wants to admit in the locker room to liking fat women? And yet, lots of men DO like fat women. Many more than will admit it to other men.
    I think you're overrating men's bashfulness in this regard.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #112
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't think guys are always 100% honest with each other about who gives them boners. For example, what guy wants to admit in the locker room to liking fat women? And yet, lots of men DO like fat women. Many more than will admit it to other men.
    I'm not speaking about locker-room talk, where most of the stuff said will be stereotypes & bla bla about big boobs etc. I was thinking more about "honest" conversations between real friends, where yes, guys definitely admit liking chubby women, since there's not going to be locker-room judgement.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #113
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    297

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    What's wrong with majority infuencing what we find beautiful? Because only some fall into those parameters. And bullshit on it even being anywhere near the majority. A very, very few fall in to the beautiful category, and those are ogled ad nauseum. The trickle down occurs that normal people cannot compete and so it manifests in the normal majority having self-image and even self esteem issues from it. Dark women burning the hell out of themselves buying skin lightening cream and hair straighteners. And white women at the age of 17 getting fake boobs and liposuction. I don't know too much what guys do, but I'm sure it's hard on them too. That is conditioning. That is something we are all part of whether you think you buy into it or not. If you are not part of the solution and you entertain yourself with those stereotypical images of beauty and brawn, you are sending the message that normal is just not good enough, and are therefore part of the problem.
    I discussed beauty as being largely defined by the majority. I asked what was wrong about that. That is my question.

    I accept the idea that there are physical traits that are attractive and physical traits that are unattractive. I accept that people (persons) will generally have things in common and they will group with such people that have things in common (bonded social capital). They might have a shared interest in automobile aesthetics, moral views or ideas that appeal to them, mutual understanding of concepts and duties, et cetera. A set of views or beliefs a group of people may also hold is roughly what is physically attractive and what is unattractive.

    To me, having the majority largely determine that just makes sense logically. The majority has a lot in common and likely has the same reasons they find X attractive in common. X being attractive is probably accomplished more often in the entire group when it's common to a majority, rather than a minority.

    Let's put it this way. Let's say features that only 1% of a population are capable of are considered attractive. That's 99% of a population that may do all sorts of messed up things to try to be like that 1%. What you describe about fake boobs and people bleaching themselves? Imagine if the major consensus was that completely dark was attractive - you'd have even more people doing crazy things to make themselves completely dark. At least with the majority holding the sense of beauty, less people will be hurting themselves. Even from your argument you cannot dispute my question.

    Your beef isn't with my question. Your beef is with the notion that people find some physical traits attractive and others unattractive. Your beef is with the fact that majorities and minorities co-exist in a society. Your beef is with stupid people willing to hurt themselves for social capital.

  4. #114
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  5. #115
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post

    What is irrational is when majority preference is mistaken for universality. It is destructive when it is used as a way to further insure the preferences of the dominant group by placing at risk the interests of the minority group beyond the actual representations in terms of population.
    ...Isn't this exactly what you're doing though? A quality like beauty is always going to be exclusive, and it makes sense that the standard will be perpetuated and reinforced by a dominant culture.

    I guess I just don't really understand what you're trying to say.



  6. #116
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    ...Isn't this exactly what you're doing though? A quality like beauty is always going to be exclusive, and it makes sense that the standard will be perpetuated and reinforced by a dominant culture.

    I guess I just don't really understand what you're trying to say.
    As you have said, I am also saying that the dominant culture determines the standard of beauty and its exclusivity. It is a question of how absolute or relative a standard of beauty is assumed as being in its application.

    Can you see the difference between a majority preference and the assumption of a universal standard?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #117
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    297

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    This is exactly the concept of privilege. What it does is extend the preferences of the dominant culture as the universal standard. It becomes the reference point for defining what a human being is, and what they are supposed to look like. It becomes destructive when those who deviate from that standard are seen as not measuring up and become acceptable the more they are able to emulate it.

    What is irrational is when majority preference is mistaken for universality. It is destructive when it is used as a way to further insure the preferences of the dominant group by placing at risk the interests of the minority group beyond the actual representations in terms of population.
    Universality is an illusion. If people are going to speak in generalizations from the get-go, they shouldn't be surprised to conclude generalized and broad results. I find a number of things physically unattractive that are considered, by most, attractive. Things that a generalisation would consider a "universal attraction" I find a big turn-off. It was difficult to find a girlfriend that physically suited my tastes (not to mention intellectually, emotionally, et cetera).

  8. #118
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    Universality is an illusion. If people are going to speak in generalizations from the get-go, they shouldn't be surprised to conclude generalized and broad results. I find a number of things physically unattractive that are considered, by most, attractive. Things that a generalisation would consider a "universal attraction" I find a big turn-off. It was difficult to find a girlfriend that physically suited my tastes (not to mention intellectually, emotionally, et cetera).
    This is true, but universality is what underlies all the assumptions in a sense of privilege. It extends the contextualized preferences, advantages, and traits of one group as the point of reference for all groups.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #119
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    As you have said, I am also saying that the dominant culture determines the standard of beauty and its exclusivity. It is a question of how absolute or relative a standard of beauty is assumed as being in its application.

    Can you see the difference between a majority preference and the assumption of a universal standard?
    I suppose so, I just can't really say for certain that a universal standard is assumed, while I CAN say that a majority preference exists. I'm not comfortable with universals and absolutes when it comes to people and their preferences. In fact, this universal standard of preferential traits is going to be inevitable, for any kind of trait you can think of.

    I guess I still don't really get why it's wrong, or unexpected.



  10. #120
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I suppose so, I just can't really say for certain that a universal standard is assumed, while I CAN say that a majority preference exists. I'm not comfortable with universals and absolutes when it comes to people and their preferences. In fact, this universal standard of preferential traits is going to be inevitable, for any kind of trait you can think of.

    I guess I still don't really get why it's wrong, or unexpected.
    There are a few traits that are near-universal in physical attraction. Facial symmetry, clear skin, and striking eyes seem to be ingrained in human attraction.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

Similar Threads

  1. Racism and MBTI
    By Mole in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-04-2012, 10:36 PM
  2. Can we connect philosophy with racism?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-05-2009, 11:22 PM
  3. Scientific Racism & Racial Theory
    By Ezra in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 02-25-2009, 03:48 AM
  4. Racism (split from "I'm voting Republican" thread.)
    By wildcat in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 191
    Last Post: 08-03-2008, 11:40 AM
  5. Prejudice, bigotry, racism, and sexism...
    By Kiddo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 10-26-2007, 11:37 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO