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  1. #11
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    I've learned more from debates and arguing than I have from school.

    Ignoring the technical modeling stuff. Don't often learn that stuff in debate.

  2. #12
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    The threads on Islam, feminism, incest, homosexuality, anything, they all reach 20+ pages and never go anywhere.

    If you post a well-reasoned, thoughtful, logical answer, somebody will reply to it by picking out one word to nonsensically nitpick or counter with soundbites that don't address any of your specific points.

    To those who participate, why do you bother? I'm concerned for your blood pressure.

    (Yeah, the majority of casual debates you encounter in real life are just as bad, but why participate in those either?)
    Debating in threads is like marking your territory.

    But, if we ignore all of that, here are some other benefits:

    -You get to practise your grammar and spelling
    -You get to challenge the arguments of others
    -You get to exercise your mind
    -You get to know one-another
    -You get to explore ideas and subjects you don't usually spend time on
    -You learn
    -You teach

  3. #13
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Debating, as others have already said, is one of the best learning tools, and certainly the best kick you can get out of a forum imo.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    The threads on Islam, feminism, incest, homosexuality, anything, they all reach 20+ pages and never go anywhere.

    If you post a well-reasoned, thoughtful, logical answer, somebody will reply to it by picking out one word to nonsensically nitpick or counter with soundbites that don't address any of your specific points.

    To those who participate, why do you bother? I'm concerned for your blood pressure.

    (Yeah, the majority of casual debates you encounter in real life are just as bad, but why participate in those either?)
    My blood pressure doesnt get effected by the random opinions of strangers in pretty much inconsequential contexts, I dont mean just forums but opinion columns in newspapers or letters page in newspapers.

    It wasnt always that way, I used to get annoyed enough to engage in my own personal letter writing campaigns and my motivation to post on forums was once, I suppose, combative. I either wanted to defeat the arguments of others or reinforce my own through the exercise of confronting others.

    Now its more of a talking point, I like to listen to others and hear what they think, how they reached those conclusions etc. Sometimes its a waste of time but not always, although the entire experience has taught me a lot about internal filters, blinkers, contrasting definitions, concepts or completely different explanatory or attributional styles or meanings. If for those reflections alone and possible insight and self-reflection its a worthwhile exercise.

  5. #15
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    The threads on Islam, feminism, incest, homosexuality, anything, they all reach 20+ pages and never go anywhere.

    If you post a well-reasoned, thoughtful, logical answer, somebody will reply to it by picking out one word to nonsensically nitpick or counter with soundbites that don't address any of your specific points.

    To those who participate, why do you bother? I'm concerned for your blood pressure.

    (Yeah, the majority of casual debates you encounter in real life are just as bad, but why participate in those either?)
    When I argue, its to reach consensus. There is no point to arguing unless you are going to reach consensus. IRL there is rarely an independent judge thats there to crown you victor and allow you to take charge after the argument. Without a judge, winning an argument in a sense of getting to take charge really comes down to "might makes right" (if you dont agree with someone, but "have to agree" in order to take action on something, then it will simply be a power struggle). So if you're like me, and refuse to participate in "might makes right", then really there is no point in arguing unless you can reach consensus.

    Without a judge or a physical fight over the truth, it will simply be two people who talk at each other for no reason. When a consensus is reached without a judge or fight forcing you to agree, then you have accomplished something. You have likely framed the debate in a positive and understanding way and have taken the combative and aggressive nature out of it.

    Consensus to me doesn't necessarily mean that the debate comes to everyone having the exact same opinion. To me its where everyone has agreed on the lines of reasoning that follow from certain a priori beliefs. Once there, everyone accepts that arguing about certain a priori beliefs is not really possible.

    Example: Healthcare debate comes down to the a priori beliefs of what is a "right" or what is a "privilege". Once people accept this, they remove the combativeness and can accept "why" the other person disagrees with them (rather than, "oh god he is such an evil/idiot/etc that i need to argue with!")

    Example2: Abortion debate comes down to whether or not you are working under assumption naturalism or assumption non-naturalism. The rest of the debate logically follows from which ever a priori belief you are operating on. When people can accept that their opponents beliefs are perfectly logical following from metaphysical a priori beliefs (that are also perfectly logical either way), then people can accept their opponent isnt an idiot, ill willed or evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Debating, as others have already said, is one of the best learning tools, and certainly the best kick you can get out of a forum imo.
    when I first started foruming, was younger and more niave, this was true...Every debate prodded me to learn more. It was positive. Then however the idealism about the virtues of debate turned to cynicism and I realized that the arguments dont change anyones essential a priori beliefs, and that I've already learned as much as I'm going to learn about the opponents position. People may change the words they use, but they are same arguments. At this point, its more important just to seek happiness and avoid blood boiling arguments (which ultimately harm us more than any one position that people accept ever will).

  6. #16
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    when I first started foruming, was younger and more niave, this was true...Every debate prodded me to learn more. It was positive. Then however the idealism about the virtues of debate turned to cynicism and I realized that the arguments dont change anyones mind, and that I've already learned as much as I'm going to learn about the opponents position. People may change the words they use, but they are same arguments. At this point, its more important just to seek happiness and avoid blood boiling arguments (which ultimately harm us more than any one position that people accept ever will).

    Arguments don't change anyone's minds? Disagree.

    Also it's not about learning directly from the opponents positions, but how you react to it, if it makes you think, makes you improve the reasoning behind your stances etc

    And ugh man (@ bolded part) , you truly are an FJ!

    Conflict doesn't harm us, it makes us better if not taken to extremes (which is why forums have rules in the first place).

  7. #17
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Absolutely nothing. Which is why I am in the habit of disappearing for long periods. I haven't seen a single debate on this forum which has yielded any new insights. But I live in hope. And I'm an argumentative bitch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #18
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Absolutely nothing. Which is why I am in the habit of disappearing for long periods. I haven't seen a single debate on this forum which has yielded any new insights. But I live in hope. And I'm an argumentative bitch.
    That's because you have nothing interesting to contribute, apart from equivocation and irrelevant side-lines.

    Which is part of the reason you haven't "yielded any new insights". [insights are found in the most mediocre of places].

    If a new "insight" flew out of your ass at 200 mph you still wouldn't get it.

  9. #19
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    That's because you have nothing interesting to contribute, apart from equivocation and irrelevant side-lines.

    Which is part of the reason you haven't "yielded any new insights". [insights are found in the most mediocre of places].

    If a new "insight" flew out of your ass at 200 mph you still wouldn't get it.
    You're looking for insight flying out of your ass?
    That explains your contribution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #20
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    You're looking for insight flying out of your ass?
    That explains your contribution.
    I try to be consistent.

    But I'd be the first to admit my postings are shit.

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