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View Poll Results: Do political parties do more harm than good?

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  • Yes

    12 66.67%
  • No

    6 33.33%
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Results 21 to 30 of 31

  1. #21
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    the urban/rural split used to be a problem politically back in the days when people actually lived in rural areas!
    I just got back from visiting my father over the weekend. He lives across the road from the house in which he was born, on a piece of ground I will one day inherit, and which hopefully my children will inherit from me. I spent Saturday hunting deer on the property.

    I assure you, there is still the odd citizen to be found out in the sticks. They recognize the opinion you voiced above as the prevalent attitude in this culture, and they don't much care for it.

    Then again, they mostly never did give two sh!tz about what city people think...

  2. #22
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I just got back from visiting my father over the weekend. He lives across the road from the house in which he was born, on a piece of ground I will one day inherit, and which hopefully my children will inherit from me. I spent Saturday hunting deer on the property.

    I assure you, there is still the odd citizen to be found out in the sticks. They recognize the opinion you voiced above as the prevalent attitude in this culture, and they don't much care for it.

    Then again, they mostly never did give two sh!tz about what city people think...
    I'm very aware of that! I'm from a rural area (I grew up on a farm outside of a town of 500 people) As a liberal from a rural area of a red state I don't feel like my vote counts because of the electoral college though

    don't get me wrong, I still vote, but it feels like a pointless exercize (I vote because I like to complain! )
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #23
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    Let me expend some of my insight:

    • Neither evolution nor creationism should be taught in school. They are just theories. School should just give me the facts, I can come up with the theories on my own time.
    • I'm outspokenly pro-choice, because babies are a mother and father's property. They are also the worst kind of STD (no offense to mothers who frequent here).
    • But at the same time, I am against irresponsible sexual activity (the kind of people who have sex all over the place and are surprised to learn that they're pregnant).
    • In the end, communism is the same thing as capitalism.
    • Hating cultures for eating dog is not being disrespectful to other cultures, those cultures are being disrespectful to man's best friend.
    • What is the religious concept of marriage (be it homo or hetero) doing in governmental affairs? How soon we forget the First Amendment...
    • To the politically correct liberals, we have practically already voted on the "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays" issue when it was discovered that the majority of the people in the Western World celebrate Christian holidays. In democracy, majority rules. (And besides, "Holiday" is "Holy Day.")
    • Even if you say B.C.E. and C.E. instead of B.C. and A.D., you cannot escape the religious connotations that are universal to any form of time measurement.
    • Prejudice has nothing to do with being uneducated, it has to do with experience and having good intuitions, and there is no greater education than experience.
    • Education is not synonymous with schooling. Anyone can set foot in a library and do research. Being formally educated (aka schooling) just means you have an expensive piece of paper to wave over the noses of those down below you.
    • It is because of politically correct mindsets that people aren't able to stick up for and express themselves as much as they'd like. Ironically, these concepts are both favorable to liberal-minded folk.
    • Republicans live in G.I. Joe cartoons, Democrats live in cheap romance novels. Does anyone truly have a firm grasp on reality?


    So, I think I've demonstrated that I am far too complex to place myself in one party...what do you think?

  4. #24
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    As a liberal from a rural area of a red state I don't feel like my vote counts because of the electoral college though
    You feel as though your vote doesn't count because you're in the minority in your constituency. There's no reason to blame that on the electoral college.

    If you're tired of getting outvoted, you have plenty of options aside from dismantling the system.

  5. #25
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You feel as though your vote doesn't count because you're in the minority in your constituency. There's no reason to blame that on the electoral college.

    If you're tired of getting outvoted, you have plenty of options aside from dismantling the system.
    my vote would count in presidential elections if it wasn't for the electoral college though! that's one of the three political points that my super-conservative grandfather and I actually agree on (the others being that we both hate daylight savings time and Henry Kissenger). and I really can't help my desire to dismantle the system- I have a bit of a horrible anarchist streak that I keep trying to repress!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #26
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    my vote would count in presidential elections if it wasn't for the electoral college though!
    Your vote would also count if you were the only voter in your district...or if you were in a single-party system...or if you were in the majority.

    Want to have your vote "count"? Switch parties.

    See? Your problem isn't the electoral college per se... it's that most of the people in your state disagree with you.

    Your vote does actually count. It just doesn't count enough to win. Welcome to life in a federal republic.

  7. #27
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm just a big fan of the one man, one vote idea and the idea that all of our votes would count- I'm placing value on people, not where they live!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #28
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'm just a big fan of the one man, one vote idea and the idea that all of our votes would count- I'm placing value on people, not where they live!
    Oh. Not a big believer in federalism. I get it.

    Tell me... how is your situation different from that of any other person in your state?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mexico View Post
    The problem with the U.S. political system is that it was designed without parties in mind... but without any consideration of organized parties the system has produced a winner-take-all arrangement that can only include the two largest parties at any given time.

    So, basically, in the United States what we need is more political parties. Parliamentary systems like you see in Europe use measures like multi-member districting to allow several parties to be represented. That's why minority parties like the German Greens or the British Liberal Democrats play more of a role in their respective countries' political systems than their American counterparts--the segment of the American population that would favor a Green platform or a Libertarian platform over the Democratic or Republican platforms are effectively unrepresented unless they can make a play for control of one of the major parties.

    ...If I had more parties to choose from, it wouldn't be a problem.
    One of my "AHA!" books is Michael Laver's Playing Politics. It's a book of political games; the games demonstrate how profoundly rules affect political behavior.

    The real-world democracy most like your ideal is probably Israel's. Israel uses proportional representation -- they vote not for candidates but for parties, which run slates of candidates. The number of each party's candidates elected to the Knesset is based on the party's percentage of the vote. There are some very fringe parties with only one or two members in the Knesset. Of course, they must form coalitions to have any say in government. Coalition-building will always be with us.

  10. #30
    Oberon
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    I especially like parties if there's music that's good (but not too loud) with an area for dancing, and a separate place where you can lounge about, eat, drink, and talk.

    And if all those conditions are met, who cares if the party is political?

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