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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Jun 2009
    9 so/sx

    Default Punishment and Consequences

    Do you think that in the aftermath of crimes that its more important to punish the perpetrator or support the individual or family which was victimised? Which is the most feasible? Which has the greater or lesser social consequence?

    I think about this constantly because I've had contact with quite a few people who are capable of or have been perpetrators of really criminal acts, they generally all fit a particular type of character who abdicates personal responsibility, considers themselves a greater victim of circumstances, has very little in the way of consequential thinking etc.

    Its a little more than a hard luck story in most instances. So on the one hand I think that punishment, no matter how harsh or lenient in reality or as it is perceived by those immediately involved or wider society, is going to make little difference to them. It will and can make a difference to society, if it becomes blood thirsty or cruel (I'm aware that some perpetrators use the same reasoning to spare themselves before anyone says so).

    On the other hand I sometimes think that a lot of therapeutic effort is made were straight forward and old fashioned "satisfaction" would be a surer fix. Satisfaction in a kind of duellists sense of the word (I'm aware too that duelling has been glamourised and valourised in a way that perhaps doesnt reflect the reality of a more might makes right code of conduct and society).

    I'm undecided.

  2. #2
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Nov 2007
    One sx/sp


    It's not mutually exclusive, but I'd lean way more to the latter. I'm not convinced that retribution is really and effective deterrent, and revenge doesn't make anything better. A crime is a crime for the damage it does (at least in the sane world), so the best thing that can be done is to somehow repair or compensate that damage.

    It's hard to say which is more feasible. It depends on how the victims are being comfortaed or the criminals are being punished. I'd say the way the USA is currently doing things, I'd skpetical if I heard that significant amount's of victim support were impractical.

    I can't discuss the social consequences without being abstract. Basically, the positive consequence is to reduce suffering overall, since like I said, the damage is what causes the suffering, and punishment and revenge doesn't seem to stop it. Considering the last two facts also means I probably wouldn't be putting society at any more danger for focusing less on punishment.
    Go to sleep, iguana.

    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  3. #3
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Jun 2009
    9 so/sx


    Why is revenge not a good idea? Or make the situation better?

    I think perhaps it could have a more "curative" impact on survivors than a lot of the the "build a bridge and get over it" therapy. I agree that punishment and victim support arent mutually exclusive, I also agree that most criminals are inured to punishment anyway and dont care about losing their freedom or dont believe it will happen or they will be caught.

  4. #4
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Apr 2007


    Punish the criminal.

    Stop it from happening to others, humans were designed to cope.

  5. #5
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    Jul 2007


    revenge poisons your mind. protect people who seek revenge from their own foolishness!

    yes, like a drug revenge is nice relieve for a moment. then demons come and hunt you.
    but most likely you will project and act out this conflict.
    because once you have crossed the line to be a revenger,
    you are guilty and you are afraid of that fact
    and with this fear you can not forgive yourself and
    without forgiving you cant admit that revenge is evil
    and you have to justify it
    and if you justify it, you will act out the pattern over and over again
    so revenge gives birth to a perpetrators
    besides you still will want to remain "the victim" just to prove that you are not the guilty one so your attitude of a pro-revenger stays justified. so the guilt of revenge stops you from freeing yourself from the insecurity of the victim persona.

    as for "educative" punishment: it depends on the personality of the criminal. it can "help" a little or make him more evil. too difficult a topic to discuss in few words. in most cases, the idea of punishment makes little sense in context of education. what usually matters is a kind of strictness which includes conditional threats. a lot of perpetrators need to learn to become conscious of their fears. fear is the grey layer that hides all disintegrated aspects of their personality, like their sense of moral or dignity. fear is the feeling ("taste") of one's shadow. if they are "fearless" they are not even close to becoming more of themselves. they need to develop a constant tolerance for this basic fear. this tolerance allows a self-critical character. a sudden punishment can't teach this tolerance. strict custody/supervision can sometimes help. it can't in cases of extreme chronically "fearlessness" (like when they speak of inborn sociopathy - needles to say i don't believe in materialistic concepts like "inborn"). some cops could use a little bit more fear(tolerance) too.

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