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  1. #1
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Totalitarian Ideology and the Enlightenment

    Yesterday at the Jaipur Literature Festival in India, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, with courage beyond most of us here, described the faith she was born into as, "a dangerous, totalitarian ideology masquerading as a religion".

    Ayaan asked why it seemed impossible to have a sober discussion about the Koran and the sayings of the Prophet Mohammed without riling Muslim sentiment. And Ayaan made the case for bringing the Enlightenment to the blighted lands of the Middle East and Muslim South Asia.

    So is Islam a dangerous, totalitarian ideology masquerading as a religion, and is the Enlightenment the answer?
    Last edited by Mole; 02-10-2010 at 10:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    No, but Islamic extremists are dangerous totalitarians who are making a mockery of their "faith."
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #3
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, but Islamic extremists are dangerous totalitarians who are making a mockery of their "faith."
    They behave exactly the same way Christians and many other Sects did for centuries...

    But would you tell us our ancestors were actually making a "mockery" of their faith?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

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    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    But would you tell us our ancestors were actually making a "mockery" of their faith?
    ...yes.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #5
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    They behave exactly the same way Christians and many other Sects did for centuries...

    But would you tell us our ancestors were actually making a "mockery" of their faith?
    Ummmm. . . yes.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #6
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    They behave exactly the same way Christians and many other Sects did for centuries...

    But would you tell us our ancestors were actually making a "mockery" of their faith?
    No, the Abrahamic faiths were carrying out the moral imperatives of their God.

    After all, it was their God who ordered Abraham to murder his son in a blood sacrifice. And the Abrahamic faiths have made blood sacrifice ever since.

    Of course the Judeo-Christians have been tamed by the Enlightenment, but not without a struggle.

    And today the Enlightenment and Islam are engaged in the same struggle to bring Islam into the modern and civilized world and away from barbarity.

    And Ayaan Hirsi Ali, born a muslim, is at the forefront of this struggle. And although she lives in Washington D.C., she must live under constant police protection for the rest of her life.

    How lucky we are to be free, and we owe Ayaan a debt of gratitude.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    They behave exactly the same way Christians and many other Sects did for centuries...

    But would you tell us our ancestors were actually making a "mockery" of their faith?
    LOL
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #8
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    And Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been saying as much since 2002, when she declared herself, with Spartacus-like zeal, an athiest.

    As a former politician, her appeal is her simplicity. No funny long-winded or complex explanations for problems are necessary. The mental illness of her sister (Islam is to blame); escaping from a violent arranged marriage (Islam is to blame); abortions, affairs, etc. Islam is, of course, always to blame. But given the universal nature of many of the problems she lays at the foot of Islam, it's hard not to conclude she might be over-egging the pancake mixture.

    In her book The Virgin's Cage, she claims her sister came to the Netherlands to escape a arranged marriage; by Infidel, the story has changed - her sister needed an abortion after having an affair. In both cases (whichever one is true) women are the victim and Islam is to blame. The theme continues...

    Prior to arriving in the Netherlands (from Kenya, not Somalia as she claimed when applying for asylum) she observed the Wahhabi tradition (like her father). She even endorsed the fatwa on Salman Rushdie and had ties with the Muslim Brotherhood. She was, by her own account, a zealot.

    On entering Holland she also neglected to mention this, but helpfully concocted a story about being threatened with clan violence in Somalia. Strange, because she's been living in Kenya for over 10 years, living a rather middle class lifesyle.

    In case the Dutch twigged and sent her back, she "amended" her name to Hirsi (from Magan) and changed her date of birth. However, while in Parliament she embraced radical anti-immigration (read anti-Islamic) policies (after changing political parties), which didn't quite tie in with her original declarations. But hey, guess who was to blame for her telling lies?

    A Dutch TV documentary investigated many of Ali's claims and found many of them convenient fantasies. She is, by her own admission a liar. Have a goosie-gander, Victor:

    [YOUTUBE="Z82C10myBmM"]Ayaan Hirsi Ali[/YOUTUBE]

    Part 2: YouTube - Ayaan Hirsi Ali/Magaan - the true story part 2

    The problem is, if you claim your experience of Islam was violent and primitive, and that "experience" turns out to be a concoction of lies, half-truths and pure fantasy, it doesn't necessarily make her contentions untrue, but it does dent her credibility. But that hasn't stopped Hirsi II from pursuing her new found athiesm with the kind of zeal one might expect from an Islamic fundamentalist. Touche.

    That said, she is a fascinating and compelling character, for sure; but she is not the modern age Voltaire she'd like to be. As an academic she displays little of the integrity required to make the kind of serious allegations she bandies willy-nilly; as a politician, that lack of integrity has done her rather well.

    And she's made a nice living of playing the eternal victim, at a cost of over $4M dollars to the Dutch taxpayer, for her security arrangements.

    Source: Amazon.com: Infidel (9780743289689): Ayaan Hirsi Ali: Books

  9. #9
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    When Theo van Gogh was butchered in the street for upholding Enlightenment values, a note was left attached to his chest by a large knife. And the note warned Ayaan Hirsi Ali that she would be butchered next.

    So in order to protect Ayaan as an elected member of the Dutch Parliament and uphold the values of the Enlightenment, the Dutch Police provided her with round the clock protection.

    But the anti-Enlightenment forces undermined the will of the Dutch Police to defend Ayaan's safety and freedom. So Ayaan was forced to flee, as many have done before her, to safety and freedom in the United States of America.

  10. #10
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    The problem is, if you claim your experience of Islam was violent and primitive, and that "experience" turns out to be a concoction of lies, half-truths and pure fantasy, it doesn't necessarily make her contentions untrue, but it does dent her credibility.
    If she were alone in citing such experiences, you might have a point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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