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  1. #81
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I have to say, as someone who's definitely not a libertarian, I'm disturbed by the standard practice in Washington. It's remarkable how many people passed the Patriot Act essentially without reading it. That's because right now, the default is that a bill passes. I would like that convention to be reversed, and that the default is that a bill doesn't pass. Right now, the legislature is too bill happy.

    My experience has been if you have a choice between letting in 5% of everything, or 95% of everything, the results are much more disasterous when you let in 95%.
    No, the Patriot Act passed so rapidly and without question because of 9/11 and it's a national security issue. Whenever there is a spending freeze or cuts, national security spending is usually exempt. So that kind of legislation, if the populous is scared enough, it goes through easily.

    And the default is definitely not that a bill passes. You know that. Just look at health care. And that's with a super majority.

  2. #82
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    No, the Patriot Act passed so rapidly and without question because of 9/11 and it's a national security issue. Whenever there is a spending freeze or cuts, national security spending is usually exempt. So that kind of legislation, if the populous is scared enough, it goes through easily.
    But most of the Democrats essentially didn't read it, which is my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    And the default is definitely not that a bill passes. You know that. Just look at health care. And that's with a super majority.
    Hah! That healthcare overhaul does not represent the default. It's highly contraversial and every second of its existence has been conspicuously announced.

    But there are tons of bills being submitted all the time, you know? There's really no way to read them all, so you basically need a system for judging bills without reading. In our system, concerning one of those bills, the decision leans way in favor of passing. What goes wrong is when it turns out one of those prosaic, innocuous bills among the masses actually has something really important in it.

    As stupid as that sounds, that is basically what goes on.
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  3. #83
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    But most of the Democrats essentially didn't read it, which is my point.
    This was during the whole anti-American liberal love it or get the fuck out period. Republicans are seen as stronger on national security, so Democrats had little political leverage to question it. Bills are 90% formal legislative-speak, and most politicians have their aides read most bills, and give them the meat of it.

    If they read every piece of legislative text themselves, well, they'd spend all day reading and still wouldn't even make a dent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Hah! That healthcare overhaul does not represent the default. It's highly contraversial and every second of its existence has been conspicuously announced.

    But there are tons of bills being submitted all the time, you know? There's really no way to read them all, so you basically need a system for judging bills without reading. In our system, concerning one of those bills, the decision leans way in favor of passing. What goes wrong is when it turns out one of those prosaic, innocuous bills among the masses actually has something really important in it.

    As stupid as that sounds, that is basically what goes on.
    I think something like 72% of bills get filibustered. And there is countless red-tape and procedural delays. The path some bills have to take before getting signed is endless. Needing a super majority to pass anything started in the 70s, it's a relatively new thing. And it represents consistent problems we've had in government since the 70s.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Then nothing gets done. Not everyone is an anti-government libertarian that wants public officials to do close to nothing. But libertarians also want far reaching changes in government, much more so than typical moderates.
    What great injustice is so urgent that it needs to get passed immediately?

  5. #85
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Really? More religious than Reagan, George W., JFK? George H.W. was pretty private about his religion, but was religious. He's an introvert after all.
    Easily more religious than Reagan or JFK. Clearly not so zealous as W.


    Obama strikes me as about as irreligious as Bill Clinton and Nixon. And as your article pointed out, he acknowledges the non-religious probably more than any President. And he doesn't go to Church, I think every President before him has picked an official Church, at the least he's a non-practicing Christian. At the end of some of his speeches, he'll quickly invoke God, but it's usually not the central theme. He's not going to go to war because God told him to, or anything like that.
    He was baptized as a 30-year-old man after a long, deep spiritual journey, and went to church weekly for over a decade.


    All major politicians have to pay homage to religion, even to sign into office. If he is an atheist, he's not going to admit it. I think he's probably agnostic.
    You have no real basis for that, other than "he seems too smart to be deeply religious."
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  6. #86
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Then nothing gets done. Not everyone is an anti-government libertarian that wants public officials to do close to nothing. But libertarians also want far reaching changes in government, much more so than typical moderates.
    Really? I would venture that the majority of Americans would vote against the majority of bills that are introduced in Congress, if they were explained to them in layman's terms.


    Of course not. Not publicly. lol..
    So you admit that you actually do NOT want a simple majority, you are just whining that not enough Democratic legislation is getting passed? At least you're honest about being a hypocrite.
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  7. #87
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    What great injustice is so urgent that it needs to get passed immediately?
    Pre-existing condition insurance scams, 45000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance per year, unsustainable rises in insurance premiums. Also, the health bill is pretty moderate, and center-left. Every other developed nation has universal care, many have single-payer. And most all developed nations are healthier than us.

    Obviously, I know you don't know anything about this, but I'm just saying it for the sake of other people.

  8. #88
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    He was baptized as a 30-year-old man after a long, deep spiritual journey, and went to church weekly for over a decade.
    Deep spiritual journey? lol..how would you know that? Are you having pillow talk with Obama?

    Obviously he's going to say Christianity is dear to him, but he has to. A lot of people still think he's a Muslim.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Pre-existing condition insurance scams, 45000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance per year, unsustainable rises in insurance premiums...

    Also, the health bill is pretty moderate, and center-left. Every other developed nation has universal care, many have single-payer. And most all developed nations are healthier than us.

    Obviously, I know you don't know anything about this, but I'm just saying it for the sake of other people...
    Obviously I don't know anything about this? I'm stupid, am I?

    What makes healthcare much more urgent now than it was 5 or 10 years ago? I want why the sudden sense in urgency. Please explain to my feeble brain.

  10. #90
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    Obviously I don't know anything about this? I'm stupid, am I?
    No, just young.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    What makes healthcare much more urgent now than it was 5 or 10 years ago? I want why the sudden sense in urgency. Please explain to my feeble brain.
    5 or 10 years ago, you probably weren't even alive. It was urgent then too, but Clinton failed pushing it through. But now, insurance rates are rising at unprecedented levels, that's one of the main differences between then and now.

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