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  1. #51
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Like the average voter gives a damn about House procedural rules. Only 37% of the population knows what the filibuster is, for godsakes.
    This is totally irrelevant.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #52
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    We elect the politicians we want. Washington wouldn't be full of snakes if voters didn't want to be sure that their guy was just enough of a snake to make sure their district doesn't get left out.
    I'm pretty cynical, but even I don't believe this crap. People don't want snakes, they're fooled into believing they aren't snakes.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #53
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    There's an implicit sexism in always assuming that hatred toward a woman must come from sexism.
    If this was just another old and gray white guy as Speaker, with the same politics, it would just be another Democrat. If she was a murderer, than that would explain the Republican angst against her. But she's not.

    Palin definitely faces some sexism also, it's not just with female Democrats. But honestly, she's just a bad politician and brought a lot of it upon herself. A better politician wouldn't have quit half way through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The only credit I can give her is that at least she does represent some further left ideas than a lot of people in the country, so, like AJ said, she is the most likely source of a meaningful heatlhcare bill being passed, etc.
    This is what I mean, she's actually not that far left. That kind of just plays into the Republican narrative on her -- she's a socialist, marxist, far-left loon etc. Her voting record is pretty typical center-left liberal Democrat.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    If this was just another old and gray white guy as Speaker, with the same politics, it would just be another Democrat. If she was a murderer, than that would explain the Republican angst against her. But she's not.

    Palin definitely faces some sexism also, it's not just with female Democrats. But honestly, she's just a bad politician and brought a lot of it upon herself. A better politician wouldn't have quit half way through.
    How, then, do you explain my disgust with Newt Gingrich? You have no sexism argument to fall back on there.

    This is what I mean, she's actually not that far left. That kind of just plays into the Republican narrative on her -- she's a socialist, marxist, far-left loon etc. Her voting record is pretty typical center-left liberal Democrat.
    I've never believed she was that far left. I just think she sucks.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #55
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    If this was just another old and gray white guy as Speaker, with the same politics, it would just be another Democrat. If she was a murderer, than that would explain the Republican angst against her. But she's not.

    Palin definitely faces some sexism also, it's not just with female Democrats. But honestly, she's just a bad politician and brought a lot of it upon herself. A better politician wouldn't have quit half way through.
    I frankly don't know if that would actually be the case. It's hard to tell since the other Democrat to throw a lot of blame at is a black guy with an Arabic name. It's possible if they were both WASPy males they'd still be receiving all the hatred. The Republicans currently strike me as both so politically greedy and ideologically mad that I'm not sure they'd be any less hateful no matter what demographic the Democratic leaders were from. As it is, there probably isn't any evidence for either conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    This is what I mean, she's actually not that far left. That kind of just plays into the Republican narrative on her -- she's a socialist, marxist, far-left loon etc. Her voting record is pretty typical center-left liberal Democrat.
    For this country's political beltway, she's left enough to support, as a leftist.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    So I'm a Marxist for pointing out that someone's hatred toward the United States' economic system comes from Marxism. Right. Even when their entire means of attacking the system comes straight from Capital.
    What?!

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    We elect the politicians we want. Washington wouldn't be full of snakes if voters didn't want to be sure that their guy was just enough of a snake to make sure their district doesn't get left out.
    Okay...?

    I think you're probably a bit off on that anyway. I really think it is much more the case that a relatively tiny percentage of the population votes, and even they don't often know who they are voting for.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #56
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This is totally irrelevant.
    How so? The filibuster is a very high-profile procedural rule. Only a small portion of the population even knows about it. Your point was that Pelosi may be reviled for changing a lesser-profile procedural rule. By extension, it is likely that an even smaller portion of the population knows about that rule. However, a large percentage of the rank-and-file Republican Party reviles Pelosi, much larger than the percentage that likely knows or cares about the rule change. Consequently, that rule change can't be something she did to warrant the amount of vitriol she receives from them.

  7. #57
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'm pretty cynical, but even I don't believe this crap. People don't want snakes, they're fooled into believing they aren't snakes.
    Ted Stevens. Robert Byrd. Every politician who has ever come out of the state of Louisiana.

    People really don't care as long as they bring home the bacon. The snakes are the ones who bring home the most bacon, because they know how to play the game best. Ambition countering ambition, it's how the system was designed in the first place.

  8. #58
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    What?!
    Same line of logic.

    Okay...?

    I think you're probably a bit off on that anyway. I really think it is much more the case that a relatively tiny percentage of the population votes, and even they don't often know who they are voting for.
    If they really didn't like who was representing them, they'd do something about it.

    Tacit consent is still consent, unless the law defines it otherwise.

  9. #59
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Ted Stevens. Robert Byrd. Every politician who has ever come out of the state of Louisiana.

    People really don't care as long as they bring home the bacon. The snakes are the ones who bring home the most bacon, because they know how to play the game best. Ambition countering ambition, it's how the system was designed in the first place.
    I don't think most voters even understand this process. If I remember, this country's senate has something to the effect of a 90% incumbency rate. People just entrust themselves to their politicians, anywhere and everywhere. People usually only lose their positions for scandals, contraversies, and gaffes, or for just happening to be associated with an extremely unpopular party or other politician.

    The votes, for better or for worse, are not affected by a complex and subtle understanding of political mechanitions.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Same line of logic.
    Then I challenge you to precisely recreate my post, but make it sound like I was talking about Marxism instead of sexism.


    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    If they really didn't like who was representing them, they'd do something about it.

    Tacit consent is still consent, unless the law defines it otherwise.
    Ignorance? Navet? Complacency? Resignation? Manufactured consent? Do any of these things ring a bell?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #60
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't think most voters even understand this process. If I remember, this country's senate has something to the effect of a 90% incumbency rate. People just entrust themselves to their politicians, anywhere and everywhere. People usually only lose their positions for scandals, contraversies, and gaffes, or for just happening to be associated with an extremely unpopular party or other politician.
    That is... they are OK with the politician as long as they don't screw up. Failing to bring home the bacon is a huge screw-up, because in the campaign, the challenger will point out how much money other areas got, and "why did so-and-so vote to send $xxx of your tax dollars to some other place?"

    Notice how no one ever attacks an incumbent for too much pork spent on the home district. That's about as much of a loser argument as you'll ever make.

    The votes, for better or for worse, are not affected by a complex and subtle understanding of political mechanitions.
    The results that are part of the campaign, on the other hand, most certainly are.

    Then I challenge you to precisely recreate my post, but make it sound like I was talking about Marxism instead of sexism.
    There's an implicit Marxism in always assuming that hatred toward capitalism must come from Marxism.

    Ignorance? Navet? Complacency? Resignation? Manufactured consent? Do any of these things ring a bell?
    Do any of them contradict my point?

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