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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by wren View Post
    Why? Don't you want to use money to make the world a better place socially?
    My definition of a 'better place, socially' differs from yours. My includes a different political framework. Comparing our ideal societies would be apples to oranges. Mine would be in a direction that would require being an economic powerhouse probably top on the list.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    No, we're definitely in recovery. I'm not sure what data you're basing your prediction on, probably nothing.

    GDP report: Best growth in six years - Jan. 29, 2010
    US economy growing at fastest rate for six years - Business News, Business - The Independent
    Unfortunately, those figures are going to be very short-lived. We are fundamentally in much worse circumstances than we were 12 months ago.

    Here's an analogy. Bob has been up for 4 nights smoking crack. Bob is coming off his last hit and feels terrible--very, very tired.

    Dr. Obama and Dr. Bernanke show up. Bob describes his symptoms. Do Doctors Obama and Bernanke help bob find a bed, maybe give him an Ativan, take his shoes off, help him relax?

    No! Dr. Bernanke pulls up Bob's sleeve while Dr. Obama gives Bob a massive IV injection of methamphetamine. Soon Bob is wide-awake and bouncing off the walls! The fatigue has vanished! Obama and Bernanke leave the room, congratulating each other on their ability to handle Bob's "fatigue crisis--that could have lead to sleep if we hadn't intervened."

    What happens two days later?

    WATCH: YouTube - Peter Schiff on Dan Lovallo 21 January 2010

    YouTube - Peter Schiff on the State of the Union speech

  3. #33
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    No, we're definitely in recovery. I'm not sure what data you're basing your prediction on, probably nothing.

    Im saving this for later.

    89% Extroverted ~ 68% Intuition ~ 84% Feeling ~ 89% Perceiving
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  4. #34
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Much more impressive than the SOTU, was the Republican Q&A he did with Republicans yesterday; at their own Republican retreat. Nothing like it has really ever happened, and after, several people on the Right publicly regretted letting the White House televise it, which they almost didn't let them do.

    Obama Goes To GOP Lions' Den -- And Mauls The Lions

    Obama At House Republican Retreat In Baltimore: FULL VIDEO, TEXT
    wow. that was pretty cool stuff

    how much longer can realism last?

    it would be nice if this sort of realism can last

    dang that question by his former illinois state senate colleague was pretty cool. u get a good taste of the chicago down to earthness there...

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post

    The function of language is twofold: to facilitate communication, understanding, and thought, or to prevent it.
    -- Garrett Hardin

    Obama is an inveterate liar, and intelligent liars attempt to conceal their lies. In politics, this is often accomplished by means of

    Obfuscation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    See also

    Politics and the English Language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Obfuscation? Really? I find him to be very understandable. I think your lack of understanding says more about you than him.

    I didn't vote for Obama, but the more I see how handles the presidency, the more I like him. If he were up for reelection, right now, there's a good chance I'd vote for him, and I've never voted for democratic presidential candidate before.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Much more impressive than the SOTU, was the Republican Q&A he did with Republicans yesterday; at their own Republican retreat. Nothing like it has really ever happened, and after, several people on the Right publicly regretted letting the White House televise it, which they almost didn't let them do.

    Obama Goes To GOP Lions' Den -- And Mauls The Lions

    Obama At House Republican Retreat In Baltimore: FULL VIDEO, TEXT
    That Q&A session was awesome. He absolutely raped the Republicans there. This is a link to the full video, without any media cutting in.

    [YOUTUBE="w1-jasxb7NY"]Obama vs GOP[/YOUTUBE]

    He needs to have a similar talk with Pelosi. She sucks just as much as these Republican tools.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Obfuscation? Really? I find him to be very understandable. I think your lack of understanding says more about you than him.
    Obfuscation isn't about appearing to be cryptic, or hard to understand. It's essentially about misdirection. When it's well done, it isn't noticed by the recipient.

    Of course, Obama simply lies as well, and he does it IMHO better than Bill Clinton ever did.

    Obama's Lies Matter, Too - Reason Magazine

  8. #38
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    The lies last night began in Obama's opening paragraph. "When I spoke here last winter," he began, "credit was frozen. And our financial system was on the verge of collapse." In fact, Obama spoke on Feb. 24, at least six weeks after credit markets began to thaw, and one week after he proclaimed that the passage of his $787 billion stimulus marked "the beginning of the end, the beginning of what we need to do to create jobs for Americans." Obama's speech that day wasn't about staving off a collapse, it was about cleaning up the mess and tackling long-ignored issues. Such as health care.
    actually the stock market reached the lowest point one month later. at that time, it was still staving off a collapse of the financial markets. albiet, in my opinion about 1/3 as severe as it was in sept/oct 2008. the low in march 2009 was just about no real future, whereas sept/oct 2008 was about armaggedon. these differences matter to people in the financial markets.

    back then in march 2009, the financial markets were worried about what became termed as the "new normal". which meant a new normal where we can't count on bubbles in the economy (i.e. NASDAQ or housing bubble) to promote growth. The "New normal" meant we have to have real growth, and it was something that the markets at the time could not see because frankly, when was the last time the US economy grew on something other than housing or nasdaq bubbles? The corporate debt markets at the time were beginning to thaw, but it was still bad. What most people see however is the housing/business loan market. at the time, yes they were still frozen and worse than the corporate debt markets (both corporate debt and bank loan markets are commonly lumped together into one term "credit markets"). ask anyone who tried to take out a loan earlier in 2009. it was practically impossible. i only got a housing loan in march 2009 because I put over 50% down on my property.

    anyways, if you take a look at studies done on heuristics and biases, you will see that the less people "bet" real money on an outcome, the more they are willing to part with reality. which is how the term "put your money where your mouth is" is definitely a sure way to narrow the gap between reality and games.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Obfuscation isn't about appearing to be cryptic, or hard to understand. It's essentially about misdirection. When it's well done, it isn't noticed by the recipient.
    Then choose a different word, because you're changing the meaning of obfuscation here.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #40
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Obfuscation isn't about appearing to be cryptic, or hard to understand. It's essentially about misdirection. When it's well done, it isn't noticed by the recipient.
    Obfuscate:
    verb (used with object), -cat?ed, -cat?ing.
    1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
    2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information.
    3. to darken.

    So yeah, obfuscation precisely is about being cryptic and hard to understand. You may be speaking of deceit, slanting, embellishment, etc. But you're not talking about obfuscation.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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