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  1. #101
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    His views and the stuff he supports tends to line up pretty closely to secular humanism. Of which most proponents are agnostic or atheist, or just nonreligious.
    So, basically, you're basing it on "This guy just CAN'T be religious?" LOL You're too much sometimes.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #102
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    So, basically, you're basing it on "This guy just CAN'T be religious?" LOL You're too much sometimes.
    He could be. Probably not though. You're the one trying to claim with certainty he's on a deep spiritual journey.

    How many religious secular humanists do you know? Any?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    We're not a direct democracy, and our political system is very much influenced by money. I know you're kinda young, but someone was gonna have to tell you this eventually. And the insurance lobby is able to outspend the unions, which are typically for health reform.

    Not that a direct democracy would solve everything, people often get fooled into voting against their interests.
    Can you please quit with the ad-hominems? It weakens your overall argument. I'm old enough that I've experienced lecturing 4th year economics at a sizable university. I'm quite curious to know how old you think I am.

    Campaign spending is not directly correlated to the laws that exist - that much is obvious. Politicians will obviously try to increase their campaign contributions, but they won't typically do so if they think it'll cost them being elected. If an issue is so urgent for the voterbase, a politician wouldn't be able to hold it off for a long time without losing his/her seat.

    People may vote against their interests, but only by having their priorities manipulated. If, for example, the voter-base insists on a free-market Christian over healthcare reform, the former would be, I think, more urgent to the voter base. Do you disagree?

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Tobacco directly kills people, health insurance... typically saves people. Slight difference.
    Tobacco reform did what? Healthcare reform would do what?

  4. #104
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    Can you please quit with the ad-hominems? It weakens your overall argument.
    I'm just messin with you, kid.

  5. #105
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    So you're taking Obama for his word, about his deep spiritual journey? He was probably zoning out listening to Rev. Wright most of the time. I'm an Obama fan, but I don't automatically believe everything he says.
    To be more specific, you don't believe him when believing him would hurt your opinion of him, and since you have a rather smug disdain for religion, it would hurt your opinion of him to believe he was deeply religious.

    You really haven't provided an explanation for why you think he isn't. I mean, your attempt at linking policy to religious belief is spurious at best. It would probably help to know that a lot of the religious political figures in South America are socialist, and tend to be surprisingly lax about abortion and birth control for so-called Catholics.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #106
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    To be more specific, you don't believe him when believing him would hurt your opinion of him, and since you have a rather smug disdain for religion, it would hurt your opinion of him to believe he was deeply religious.

    You really haven't provided an explanation for why you think he isn't. I mean, your attempt at linking policy to religious belief is spurious at best. It would probably help to know that a lot of the religious political figures in South America are socialist, and tend to be surprisingly lax about abortion and birth control for so-called Catholics.
    I actually think it would be better that most people have some kind of religion. Believing in Hell, or in some kind of eternal justice, can dissuade people from deplorable behavior. That's a huge plus. I'd just prefer it be a liberal interpretation of theology.

    Not everyone is some heady thinker independent type, nothing wrong with that though.

    I think he is very similar to many Northeast liberals that are sorta non-practicing, sorta religious in name, but it doesn't play a huge role in their daily lives. Most everything about him indicates he's in that camp.

    The tenets of secular humanism sound very similar to an Obama speech.

  7. #107
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    He could be. Probably not though. You're the one trying to claim with certainty he's on a deep spiritual journey.
    Because he said he had been, got baptized as an adult, and attended church regularly for a LONG time. And he mentions Jesus even more often than George W. Bush did. So I have a large amount of evidence in my favor.


    How many religious secular humanists do you know? Any?
    A decent amount. I went to Catholic school for 13 years. Do you know any religious people?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #108
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Because he said he had been, got baptized as an adult, and attended church regularly for a LONG time. And he mentions Jesus even more often than George W. Bush did. So I have a large amount of evidence in my favor.
    You can say you believe him totally. Nothing wrong with that. Neither of us will ever know for sure. You just better be consistent in how much you take Obama on his word.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    A decent amount. I went to Catholic school for 13 years. Do you know any religious people?
    Do you know any Protestant secular humanists? That's what Obama is.

    I know secular minded Catholics, that's not really rare. But Protestants....

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    You can say you believe him totally. Nothing wrong with that. Neither of us will ever know for sure. You just better be consistent in how much you take Obama on his word.
    Why would I need to be consistent about someone talking about two completely different things? That doesn't make any sense.


    Do you know any Protestant secular humanists? That's what Obama is.

    I know secular minded Catholics, that's not really rare. But Protestants....
    Yes, I do. This is getting ridiculous. Your argument boils down to: "One aspect of a person doesn't jive with my biased, ideologically-driven perception of what they are like. Clearly, that aspect cannot be true!"
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #110
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Why would I need to be consistent about someone talking about two completely different things? That doesn't make any sense.
    As far as I can see, you are fairly consistent on not questioning his honesty and motives that much. So you probably don't have to worry.

    If you thought he was lying all the time, but believed him on that one issue of his religious beliefs (when he definitely has political pressure to be religious), that would be more questionable.

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