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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Imo, because they know it's a futile task to ask the whole world to stop. They know they're in a losing battle in that. They pick and choose the smallest, most insignificant battles that they can micromanage, because they know when it comes to real decision making they lack backbone.
    Or maybe they just try to fight for all animal rights, including minor ones like this.

  2. #22
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Mon, isn't the fox on the endangered species lists?

    Don't get me wrong, I hear what you're saying, and sadly, that is reality. But I can understand the outrage for an animal that is indeed more lovable and endangered and whose death is in fact utterly pointless. WWF uses that tactic even, to promote their campaigns using 'Ambassadors' which are more appealing to people, such as the Tiger, or the Dolphin, as one animal can actually help many others that aren't as 'lovable'.

    Now, they may not be able to prove how the fox was killed, but traditional methods for fur animals are pretty gruesome as 'they cannot be damaging the valuable fur'. I know for instance that some type of ..I think minx.. gets anally electrocuted in order to preserve the fur. The second way a fox is going to die is either by being shot during the hunt or being ripped to shreds by 50 hounds all at once after being exhausted and run down...for sports. That's just abusing the dog's hunting instincts and not giving the fox a chance imo. How is that sports? I dunno...
    As for dogs and cats, it's true, we become emotionally attached to them. Shipping them over to other countries would indeed for emotional reasons not be permitted. But also, we have a *ton* of excess food over here that isn't emotionally valuable to us (butter, milk, grain etc etc) that doesn't get shipped over there either coz of logistics and the way the economical system works, so I don't see that being really an option. It's true that each culture has its values, and they should be respected. We find it odd to eat cats and dogs, and over here, horses, whereas in India they'd look at you like a murderer for eating a cow. That's cultural. But it's still for food. The way in which the kill is done, and what the animal is used for matters, imo. And since I presume that person wasn't wearing that fur to be surviving in Siberia...I totally understand why they went off on him.

    @low: true, it is in our best interest to teach our children not to go respectless as it benefits society. I have no qualms with doing things out of self-interest, since most of our behaviors stem from there. I do have a problem with behaviors that are clearly outdated and no longer needed in this society, which then cause pain to another living being 'on a whim'. I don't really have a problem as much with killing something, as long as there's a reason for it (we are part of that cycle of life afterall) and it's done in a quick, painless way. I do not kill my own animals, as I'm not qualified to do so and wouldn't be able to kill them in that manner, but I do buy meat that carries a label indicating the animal had a decent life and didn't spend it suffering and was killed in much the same way.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You can make utilitarian arguments against factory farming.
    Not on the basis of animal welfare, you can't.

  4. #24
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    At the risk of seeming insensitive...

    Hes a role model for a lot of people, including other skaters, said Priscilla Feral, president of Friends of Animals.
    Wait, aren't they also trying to influence people? I don't see their point here.

    I believe in being a good steward, but that largely just means that I care enough about animals to ensure that their species maintains decent numbers, and not flay them alive or anything like that (that doesn't really make sense to me as to why you'd have to actually do that, rather than a quick, humane death first...)
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  5. #25
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I call bullshit on that as an industry norm.

    Years ago, a friend of mine on another forum posted a "gore" video of a mink that was hung upside down, and then this big serial killer looking Neanderthal guy cuts the animal's skin around his feet and a few other key spots, and then proceeds to yank downward several times to ultimately separate the animal's skin from its body, and then tosses its (barely living, and soon to die) body onto a pile of other dead minks.

    Granted, I think anyone that could work in a mink/fox/etc. skinning industry is a sick bastard, the company is interested in time and efficiency. The guy that posted the video knew someone who had studied this barbarism thoroughly, and that guy said that a steel rod is shoved up the animal's ass and then the animal is electrocuted. :horor:

    Now, that is hardly humane, but I dare say if I had to choose between dying that way, or being beaten and skinned alive, I'd go for the anal electrocution.

    Also, the company does not want to damage the fur, whcih beating and cutting will do. Why destroy your own product? That's stupid.


    Anyhow, I think that whole industry sucks.
    I love animals, even though I love eating them too.
    Holy shit, I did a quick Google search and found out that skinning animals alive is apparently very common, especially in China (big surprise!):

    For text article:
    A Shocking Look Inside Chinese Fur Farms

    I'm seriously going to go throw up now.
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  6. #26
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    Fur, as an industry, is pretty unnecessary to me. Then again, I don't feed my family based on it's income either.

    China is full of people doing what they have to in order to get by and put food on the table, so I can't say that I blame the average working person over there.

    As a rule, I stay away from giving PETA any form of support or acclaim. Though not directly engaging in violence, they support militants through various other means (mainly monetarily). Militant groups that have some rather perverse values concerning human life, and should be eliminated (as in their organization, not the people , though they should be treated like any other danger to society) rather than supported.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Holy shit, I did a quick Google search and found out that skinning animals alive is apparently very common, especially in China (big surprise!):p
    Yeah... :\

    The first PETA video that really fucked me up was a live skinning one.. I barely lasted a second.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    So their tactic worked really well. Going from some seemingly insignificant fluff on a skater's costume, we got to learn that foxes really are skinned alive, so at least when we make a choice to wear fox (doesn't happen every day, but still...) we know what we're doing.

    That was kinda brilliant, I think.

  9. #29
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    So their tactic worked really well. Going from some seemingly insignificant fluff on a skater's costume, we got to learn that foxes really are skinned alive, so at least when we make a choice to wear fox (doesn't happen every day, but still...) we know what we're doing.

    That was kinda brilliant, I think.
    Good point! They have a good marketing/PR dept., no matter how fooking crazy they might be as an organization!
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  10. #30
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    I have a fur scarf, people often comment on how nice it is and where I got it, and occasionally they ask if it's real.

    It's not. It's artificial, I sewed it together from the fabric myself.

    Yeu literally can't tell a difference. So why do normal fur products exist anymore since they have no discernible differences?

    Some things, like leather, however, has yet to be properly replicated, and may never be. So skaters are stuck wearing cow whether they want to or not.

    There's also the matter that fox fur breeders generally don't have very good conditions to live in for their foxes. If they lived well in the time they were alive I wouldn't really mind so much; if they're in the wild they can starve to death, and the mortality rate's pretty high, yeu don't have 6-10 babies every year if yeu honestly expected them to live to be 1 year old, so if they lived well in captivity with nice space to move around in, food and care, I'd consider that a relatively fair tradeoff really.

    But that's not whot we have. And there's no reason to be using real fur because artifical fur's just as good.

    Soooo yeah. Why were they wearing it in the first place then?

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