User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 37

  1. #11
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    6,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I dunno, I kinda side with the animal activists (though not necessarily agree with their methods). Cows get specifically bred as food. Foxes aren't usually eaten. It would be wasteful not to use the skin of the animals killed for food, but it does seem pointless to me to kill an animal purely for its fur as a fashion accessory. That's not a primary need, and doesn't balance out imo. For instance, I'm personally against hunting, at least when done by amateurs who make the animals suffer needlessly and where the point is 'sheer fun' as, once again, 'sheer fun' doesn't outweigh an animal's pain and life, I think.

    I agree that pesticides that kill other wild life and makes it suffer are up there with foxhunting, but that, again, has at least somewhat of a reason to it (though I don't necessarily agree with it), which is a primary reason= food or income. It doesn't make up for it, but it does somewhat balance it out more, I feel.

    And yeah, I know, I'm going to get heat for this
    I agree with this. Why cause needless suffering to the animal? Fur's not worth it. We're not living in prehistoric times. We don't need to wear fur.
    Something Witty

  2. #12
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I agree with this. Why cause needless suffering to the animal? Fur's not worth it. We're not living in prehistoric times. We don't need to wear fur.
    We also don't technically need to eat meat....we do so because it provides utility for humans, and we have no more obligation to look out for the welfare of other animals than does a kitty cat who tortures a chipmunk with blissful indifference.

  3. #13
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,658

    Default

    Interesting coming from an INTP
    Most of your kind seem to often feel the need to 'rise above' animal instincts and prefer the intellect

    The ability to empathise is something that is however typical of group animals, as it is a necessity for that group to survive. Beneficial, to say the least. We're a group animal. Cats are not. Their emotional development is most likely significantly different from our own. Their frontal lobes aren't as developped as ours (the part of our brain where complex emotions are formed). So it really isn't the same thing. Also, they are wired to be triggered by moving prey, it's part of their survival mechanism. We have other outlets for that.

    Feeding is a necessity and a part of life. While humans are mostly 'fruit eaters' (too lazy to look up the fancy term), we are capable of eating anything, in essence being opportunistic omnivores. And meat does provide us with great benefits. So it is part of our biology for a reason though we can choose not to consume it.

    Finally, I'm going to play the F-card and go: whatever reasoning you apply, for the deliberate and intended torture of others, be it animal or human, there is no excuse.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #14
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,545

    Default

    I don't agree with raising cows for meat, due to deer overpopulation. But I also don't think it's a good idea to raise or kill an animal if it's unecessary(MOoooooOOOOO). It's usually best for each person to figure out how they want to live and it's even better if they can do it while leaving everyone else alone.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  5. #15
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,881

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I dunno, I kinda side with the animal activists.....
    Yes, but where do you draw the line? Cultivators kill hoardes of animals that are never consumed, just unfortunately in the way just for the convenience of processing wheat and crops faster.

    While I am on the subject, why do we put our pets to sleep? Old, aging, not going to live much more, in more pain than we can bare to witness.. and yet, we don't ship the dogs and cats away to foreign countries to be eaten. We put them to sleep and the meat is never used. We can't stand the thought of Fluffy being dinner in Vietnam. But we have no problem with garden snakes being killed, and regular garden spiders being killed. We have no emotional attachment to the things that we don't feel are "Fluffy enough". Most people would agree that a spider is no big deal to be killed. Some people would agree that it's unfortunate what happens to cows and chickens, but that they need to eat. But a fox being killed? People go ape shit.

    What's the difference.. the convenience of meat and the convenience of wheat processing vs. the convenience of a fur decorator? And who's to say the fox wasn't used for meat? One can't be sure of that one way or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I agree with this......
    I'm not saying I agree with him wearing fur, or people wearing fur. I am saying that people draw ridiculous lines and ignore what's convenient for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    We also don't technically need to eat meat.....
    Exactly. We don't NEED meat, vegetarians and vegans prove that everyday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Interesting coming from an INTP
    .........
    There is a difference in acknowledging what humans as a whole do, and what one in particular does. I agree about the cats thing. Cats never seem to mature past the kitten stage of things.. Everything is fun and interesting, there is no sense of remorse for accidently killing something. It's their intended instincts.

    There are nutrients in meat you cannot seem to replace with anything else, just like you cannot replace vegetables with anything else and expect the same results. What I am saying is.. unless you hunt and kill your own meat (highly noble.) and unless you plant, cultivate, harvest and process your own wheat, vegetables, and fruits.. you are contributing to animal slaughter that has nothing to do with straight-up nutrition in one way or another.

    There never is a right excuse to give to explain the death of something, especially if it was tortured. But, sometimes people do things without needing excuses. No one who eats hamburgers apologizes to cows and tries to explain why they're eating them.

    Cultures across the world place different values on animals. Go ahead and try doing what you do with deer to cows in India and see what happens. Dogs and cats and rabbits are no more pets in the East than a cow would be. There's a "for sale" label on Fluffy in China, but here that'd be crazy to eat a cat when there's perfectly good chicken and cow.

    So why the uproar over one single fox fur? Where are you going to prove that particular fox was tortured? Do they trace the furs back all the way to a notoriously evil company that clubs baby seals and foxes depending on the weather? No one can say "Yes, I saw them catch the fox, skin it alive, and beat it with pool cues before they finally broke its neck and gave it to rabid hogs."

    Imo, because they know it's a futile task to ask the whole world to stop. They know they're in a losing battle in that. They pick and choose the smallest, most insignificant battles that they can micromanage, because they know when it comes to real decision making they lack backbone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    I don't agree with raising cows for meat, due to deer overpopulation.........
    This is my point. People have different morals, place value on different things, and that variety sometimes comes with collisions of what is or is not moral or justified.

    Anyways, Animal rights activists sometimes do some very good things.. saving whales and endangered species and what-not.. but when they get down to things so picky that it dampens their names and reputations, no one will listen to them when they have something big and important to say.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  6. #16
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,545

    Default

    Good points, mon. I only disagree on the garden spider thing. I would never kill a spider unless it's a black widow, just like I would never kill a cat. Both have their place where I live, one kills hordes of swamp insects and the other kills excess field mice and other small diseased creatures. Also, mice can be fluffy too when they aren't ripping in to bags of cracked corn.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  7. #17
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Finally, I'm going to play the F-card and go: whatever reasoning you apply, for the deliberate and intended torture of others, be it animal or human, there is no excuse.
    Legalizing the torture, for its own sake, of animals is contrary to the interests of humanity, in that it encourages anti-social behavior among humans. Human's therefore have a utilitarian interests in not allowing maladjusted children to throw rocks at kittens.* Humans do not have utilitarian interests in banning activities such as animal-testing, wearing fur, factory farming, eating meat, or hunting. My point is not that we should torture animals for fun, but rather that there is no moral imperative to protect the welfare of animals at the expense of human utility.

    *Yes, I love cats....and my chipmunk example is a fond memory of a deceased cat of mine that was eaten by coyotes (why didn't someone shoot those damn things!:steam
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 01-28-2010 at 12:24 AM. Reason: more to add

  8. #18
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Humans do not have utilitarian interests in banning activities such as animal-testing, wearing fur, factory farming, eating meat, or hunting.
    You can make utilitarian arguments against factory farming.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #19
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Could you elaborate?
    I meant that its not a general concern, I dont believe that the majority of the public will ever be that swayed one way or the other by topics like hunting a fox for its furs but for a specific sort of person this topic is a really great one for them to identify with.

  10. #20
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,881

    Default

    ^ Ah, thank you. I thought you were hinting around those lines, I wanted to be sure.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

Similar Threads

  1. NYT: Smoking studies reveal even more bad things. Who knew.
    By kyuuei in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-12-2015, 08:11 PM
  2. Guess who the above member was in another life
    By phobik in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-11-2011, 04:07 PM
  3. Who else thought I was a girl?
    By nolla in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 162
    Last Post: 01-13-2010, 08:14 PM
  4. Who else thought I was a Squirrel?
    By Nonsensical in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-11-2010, 09:03 AM
  5. The Secret Life of Xander - Who Knew ?
    By kuranes in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-02-2008, 10:09 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO