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  1. #31
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Okay, go for it.
    I'd still laugh at it, but I'm a cold, cynical bastard.

  2. #32
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    I have yet to meet anybody around here who uses this term as a synonym for gentile. Aside from its origin (?), it has no importance whatsoever. Shabbat goy refers to someone who is NOT JEWISH, yet assists jewish communities by doing things that is prohibited for them.
    Isn't "not Jewish" and "gentile" the same thing?

    It seems to me that "goy" is a lot like Southerners using the term "Yankee" and foreigners using the term "Yanks"; it can be either offensive or harmless, depending on the context. When used non-disparagingly as a means of in-group bonding, then its not offensive, but when used non-ironically as a means of implicit exclusion in mixed company, it is.

  3. #33
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    It seems to me that "goy" is a lot like Southerners using the term "Yankee" and foreigners using the term "Yanks"; it can be either offensive or harmless, depending on the context. When used non-disparagingly as a means of in-group bonding, then its not offensive, but when used non-ironically as a means of implicit exclusion in mixed company, it is.
    Oh, I remember the first time I was called a Yankee by a southerner! We had brought a Minnesotan into a Waffle House

    So, I'm thinking, ironically, "goy" is about as offensive as the word "jew".
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #34
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    So, I'm thinking, ironically, "goy" is about as offensive as the word "jew".
    There's two subtle but potentially important distinctions:

    1.) "goy" is non-specific in terms of its "othering," while "Jew" is specific to a particular group of "others."

    2.) "Goy" is not a term used by the group to which it refers, while "Jew" is.

    A good retort towards Christians who think that "goy" is inherently offensive, however, would be to point out that it means the same thing as "gentile," a term (or its ancient equivalent) and religious distinction that I'm pretty sure was used by Jesus Himself, and is certainly contained in Christian scriptures.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    There's two subtle but potentially important distinctions:

    1.) "goy" is non-specific in terms of its "othering," while "Jew" is specific to a particular group of "others."

    2.) "Goy" is not a term used by the group to which it refers, while "Jew" is.

    A good retort towards Christians who think that "goy" is inherently offensive, however, would be to point out that it means the same thing as "gentile," a term (or its ancient equivalent) and religious distinction that I'm pretty sure was used by Jesus Himself, and is certainly contained in Christian scriptures.
    Yeah Jesus used it, he used it to tell his followers that the exclusive relationship between God and the Hebrews was done and they should go and preach to all nations, ie the "gentiles".

  6. #36
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah Jesus used it, he used it to tell his followers that the exclusive relationship between God and the Hebrews was done and they should go and preach to all nations, ie the "gentiles".
    I'm pretty sure he also used it elsewhere; something about the Message and/or Jesus's miracles/salvation being intended for the Jews first and foremost, implicitly as part of the Covenant obligation. This salvation was later extended equally to the Gentiles, which most Christians believe was part of the Plan all along; the matter of whether or not the old Covenant is still applicable concurrently with the new Covenant is theologically disputed among Christians.

    Basically, Jews having a distinct identity apart from other peoples based on their Covenant with God has had divine endorsement according to Christian scriptures. Since followers of Judaism believe the Covenant is still in effect, distinguishing themselves on this basis cannot be inherently offensive to Christian Gentiles unless they believe God intended for the original Covenant to be viewed as such.

    All of this is just for fun, however; I don't view in-group bonding to be inherently offensive, though it sometimes is, in practice.

  7. #37
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    There's two subtle but potentially important distinctions:

    1.) "goy" is non-specific in terms of its "othering," while "Jew" is specific to a particular group of "others."

    2.) "Goy" is not a term used by the group to which it refers, while "Jew" is.
    Agreed. I'm not an "other". I'm a specific mix of things, and in addition, an individual to boot. Deal with me on those terms. Don't take the privilege of being something "unique", while I'm just an "Other". Respect that I (and other "goy") am just as complicated and defined as Jews are.

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