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  1. #21
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Well, the word "goy" is often considered as deeply offensive, especially in the far left or within catholic/sunni cultural environments. They consider it as a proof that Jewish culture is inherently racist, and based upon the intentional discrimination of "Others".

    Of course, they do not understand the real meaning of it, how it was formed and why. And the thruth is they don't want to. It's a perfect exemple of cultural dissonance, when values conflict (especially around the definition of universalism).

    ---

    A lot of modern anti-Semitic propaganda makes an extensive use of the word goy/goyim (in Hebrew, plural forms often end in -im. Hence some semantic mysteries, like the word Elohim you wouldn't expect to find in a so-called monotheistic religion).
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #22
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Now, does WASP mean White Anglo-Saxon Person or White Anglo-Saxon Protestant?
    Protestant, AFAIK.

    I think my town is predominantly Protestant, but it's hard to tell because Protestants are more likely to just start up a church because they feel like it than Catholics appear to be, so Catholic congregations appear to be larger and fairly stable, while Protestant churches pop up and disappear like mushrooms and vary a lot in size.

    I'd say in my town there are about 150 churches of those a half dozen to a dozen are probably Catholic, then there are a couple are Latter Day Saints and a couple Jehovah's Witness (I'm not sure whether or not they consider themselves Protestant) and AFAIK, one Unitarian Universalist church. There is a Spiritualist church, a Baha'i house of worship, one synagogue, and one mosque.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    We used goy first! Damned heterosexuals, always ruining everything! :steam:
    Hmm, yes, excuse me while I split my sides laughing.

    Anyway, on topic, I think it can be insulting and offensive, context is important of course but there is other criteria to apply when making consideration of whether or not something is offensive.

    I think this is the process of "othering" involved, the creation of in and out groups, while it could be one thing, innoxious and fun, like that dynamic which operates between different fan followings (team Edward and team Jacob) it could be a discriminatory mindset which encourages or attaches ideas of superiority and inferiority, encourags prejudices, actively demeans etc.

    I tend to think that sort of "othering" is a very bad thing, it begins very gradually, it can be something which the "other" conspires with and seeks to make light of and if you've ever observed the development of bullying dynamics amoung children you could be familiar with this, but can mount and escalate to the point were unconscienceable behaviour becomes permitted to the individuals who are part of the in-group towards those who are the "other".

  4. #24
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    The first time I recall hearing the word was as a kid was in Synagogue. My Rabbi used it to reference - as Ivy mentioned - folks that would do stuff for us on Shabbat and the holidays. After that, the word "goyim" was used in place of "gentile." In fact, I don't remember hearing the word "gentile" until I was a bit older.

    But as the Chosen Ones, we can call you people whatever we want. If it weren't for the fact that we are so outnumbered, we wouldn't even acknowledge your existence with words. We'd just gesture toward you with grunts and the occasional pointing finger.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  5. #25
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    A lot of modern anti-Semitic propaganda makes an extensive use of the word goy/goyim


    There is a far-right group in our country called the "Goy Cyclists".

    (-im is usually the masculine plural form in hebrew, while -ot is the feminine)

    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    But as the Chosen Ones, we can call you people whatever we want. If it weren't for the fact that we are so outnumbered, we wouldn't even acknowledge your existence with words. We'd just gesture toward you with grunts and the occasional pointing finger.

    And that makes me a sad panda.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Protestant, AFAIK.

    I think my town is predominantly Protestant, but it's hard to tell because Protestants are more likely to just start up a church because they feel like it than Catholics appear to be, so Catholic congregations appear to be larger and fairly stable, while Protestant churches pop up and disappear like mushrooms and vary a lot in size.

    I'd say in my town there are about 150 churches of those a half dozen to a dozen are probably Catholic, then there are a couple are Latter Day Saints and a couple Jehovah's Witness (I'm not sure whether or not they consider themselves Protestant) and AFAIK, one Unitarian Universalist church. There is a Spiritualist church, a Baha'i house of worship, one synagogue, and one mosque.
    The abbreviation WASP is for white anglo-saxon protestant, within that identity or ethnic concept protestantism is a tradition associated closely with traits exhibited by white and particularly anglo-saxon culture.

    Which is pretty strange for someone with any knowledge of the history of protestantism in the UK, while in england, the site of the anglo-saxons there were a great many protestant congregations and factions and the monarchy split with the church and allied itself with those factions it was really the protestant covenantors (spelling) and presbytarians in Scotland led by John Knox who played the part in the development of the Scottish monarch who would eventually create a single British entity with a strong relationship between church and nation state.

    Its strange and obscure but it would be more accurate to refer to white scots-irish protestant in most instances.

  7. #27
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post

    And that makes me a sad panda.
    Yeah, that makes me sad too.

    Maybe someday we'll have greater numbers.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    The first time I recall hearing the word was as a kid was in Synagogue. My Rabbi used it to reference - as Ivy mentioned - folks that would do stuff for us on Shabbat and the holidays. After that, the word "goyim" was used in place of "gentile." In fact, I don't remember hearing the word "gentile" until I was a bit older.

    But as the Chosen Ones, we can call you people whatever we want. If it weren't for the fact that we are so outnumbered, we wouldn't even acknowledge your existence with words. We'd just gesture toward you with grunts and the occasional pointing finger.
    This is, I'm guessing, some attempt at humour.

    Lets substitute Aryan or Master Race in place of "Chosen Ones" and see how many laughs we get.

  9. #29
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Okay, go for it.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  10. #30
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Well, the word "goy" is often considered as deeply offensive, especially in the far left or within catholic/sunni cultural environments. They consider it as a proof that Jewish culture is inherently racist, and based upon the intentional discrimination of "Others".

    Of course, they do not understand the real meaning of it, how it was formed and why. And the thruth is they don't want to. It's a perfect exemple of cultural dissonance, when values conflict (especially around the definition of universalism).

    ---

    A lot of modern anti-Semitic propaganda makes an extensive use of the word goy/goyim (in Hebrew, plural forms often end in -im. Hence some semantic mysteries, like the word Elohim you wouldn't expect to find in a so-called monotheistic religion).
    You sound like a Jew.

    Is your last name Dreyfus?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

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