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  1. #81
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    The workers are already getting killed snd their kids are already starving. What's your proposal to fix this, out of curiosity?
    Sorry, I'm more of an Institutionalist than a Marxist. My way of helping was going to be to be an exported teacher, not some leader in some revolution. What you're proposing is not helping anyone, it's just redirecting the violence to someone who you believe is more "deserving", which will end with a lot of innocents, wealthy or not, getting killed. I believe in nonviolent solutions.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #82
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Sorry, I'm more of an Institutionalist than a Marxist. My way of helping was going to be to be an exported teacher, not some leader in some revolution. What you're proposing is not helping anyone, it's just redirecting the violence to someone who you believe is more "deserving", which will end with a lot of innocents, wealthy or not, getting killed. I believe in nonviolent solutions.
    You didn't answer my question. You believe in non-violent solutions, great, then tell me what the non-violent solution is.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #83
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    You didn't answer my question. You believe in non-violent solutions, great, then tell me what the non-violent solution is.
    Private property and civil liberties.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #84
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Private property and civil liberties.
    I don't agree but for the sake of argument...were either of these established non-violently? Can they be maintained non-violently? How are you going to win them in countries that don't have them, and defend them in countries that do, without violence?

    I'm only trying to show the hypocrisy of those who cry crocodile tears over the "violent" nature of communism. I admit that I support violence in some circumstances and that morality is relative; I just wonder if others will admit the same, or if they will remain hypocrites.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  5. #85
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    I don't agree but for the sake of argument...were either of these established non-violently? Can they be maintained non-violently? How are you going to win them in countries that don't have them, and defend them in countries that do, without violence?
    Violence isn't always awful. It's sadly necessary sometimes. Violent revolution to steal people's property and institute a totalitarian form of government is always and everywhere awful. Countries that have private property and civil liberties are less violent (internally, at least) than ones that do not.


    I'm only trying to show the hypocrisy of those who cry crocodile tears over the "violent" nature of communism. I admit that I support violence in some circumstances and that morality is relative; I just wonder if others will admit the same, or if they will remain hypocrites.
    It's not hypocritical at all if you acknowledge that are differences between initiatory force and retaliatory force.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #86
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=pure_mercury;1018737]
    Violence isn't always awful. It's sadly necessary sometimes.
    We agree then.

    Countries that have private property and civil liberties are less violent (internally, at least) than ones that do not.
    So the USA is less violent than Cuba? Or than the Soviet Union was? I think oyu'll find the opposite is the case.


    It's not hypocritical at all if you acknowledge that are differences between initiatory force and retaliatory force
    So the force used against the Brits in order to establish US independence was retaliatory? Or the force to overthrow the Monarchies of France and Great Britain and establish Parliamentary forms of government? Liberal democracy wasn't established by "retaliatory" force, my friend.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  7. #87
    Senior Member ubiquitous1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    So the force used against the Brits in order to establish US independence was retaliatory?
    Independence would be the key word in that sentence and your examples are not equal. Anyway, it is nobler to fight for freedom than to fight for control. In a free society you can choose to live in a commune without repercussions. However, communism does not allow the individual that same choice. Communism is an antiquated ideology and it does not work on a large scale for long. In order for it to work, communist societies need to be small and homogenous, neither of which apply to the US.

  8. #88
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubiquitous1 View Post
    In order for it to work, communist societies need to be small and homogenous, neither of which apply to the US.
    DINGDINGDINGDINGDING.

    You can choose to live in a commune in the US if you want to. The only problem is, ironically, that they don't advertise very well, so most people believe they don't have much of a choice.

    Actually, tcda, the things that most concern me are groups of rebels who kill their own damn citizens just to prove a point. This should be solved first. We have very different priorities, see.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #89
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    We agree then.
    In that aspect, yes.


    So the USA is less violent than Cuba? Or than the Soviet Union was? I think oyu'll find the opposite is the case.
    The United States is far less violent than the Soviet Union was. Are you out of your mind? Look how many people were killed from 1917-1982.


    So the force used against the Brits in order to establish US independence was retaliatory? Or the force to overthrow the Monarchies of France and Great Britain and establish Parliamentary forms of government? Liberal democracy wasn't established by "retaliatory" force, my friend.
    Really? The monarchies in those countries didn't use force and repression to maintain dominance over their subjects?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #90
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The United States is far less violent than the Soviet Union was. Are you out of your mind? Look how many people were killed from 1917-1982.
    See, a lot fewer people would have died if everyone accepted Communism except for the ones forced to the cities and the kolkhozy and a lot fewer people would have died if everyone accepted US hegemony except for the ones forced out to the farms and into the cities by market forces and starved and killed by dangerous machines.

    ...wait a second.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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