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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I'd recommend against this, unless you want justification for killing brown people in far-away lands, in the name of "efficiency".
    I'd recommend against it if the actual post is anything to go by, I mean what is up with supposing that all social stratification is the result of socialism and nothing arises any other way or as a consequence of capitalism itself? Hell the concept and meaning of caste predates capitalist society itself!

    This is what bugs me about the contemporary trendy libertarianism and capitalist chic, it possesses the same slopping reasoning and ideological mind as the socialism did in its hay day, long on promises and short on results other than what actually runs counter to what they originally said wouldnt happen or would be short lived if it did.

    With socialism it was the survival of state, vanguard, elites, with capitalism its pretty much the same only its monopolies, fat cats, carpet baggers.

  2. #32
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Actually, the "brown people" in Hong Kong, who enjoy the freest economy in the world, are doing far better than most of the West.

    Edit: For the OP's additional education, read the factors of economic liberty (via the first link) in depth. They crystallize, in plain and literal terms, the differences between open markets and highly regulated ones.
    Does Hong Kong actually produce anything? Or is it a sink of paper wealth, just like Wall Street and the City were before the crash?

    Let's not forget Hong Kong was essentially London East for the better part of 50 years. It also has one of the most disparate distributions of wealth in the world... and there are far more non-Chinese in the wealthy category than proportionate to the general population.

  3. #33
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Capitalism's "harnessing of greed to use against itself" depends mostly on market competition. In that sense, monopolies kill capitalism because they kill competition. Ideal capitalism entails a perpetual state of competing businesses.

    This game of trying to keep a "balance of power" reminded me of military history in the last two centuries. Over time, wars were fought, with one nation or alliance victorious over the other, repeating this process until only one Power dominated. It creates a lopsided effect, and I wonder if this is a game that is not meant to be "won," but is meant to be kept in perpetual competition...
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Bri's Avatar
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    Sorta on-topic, sorta not, but an excellent video anyway. The on-topic part is where the speaker addresses meritocracy.

  5. #35
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I'd recommend against this, unless you want justification for killing brown people in far-away lands, in the name of "efficiency".

    What are you talking about?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #36
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Let's not forget Hong Kong was essentially London East for the better part of 50 years.
    Therefore its polices are derived from general Western principles of free markets which was entirely my point.

    there are far more non-Chinese in the wealthy category than proportionate to the general population.
    Standards of living and upward mobility run rings around anything nearby. Didn't you start by insisting non-whites were simply being killed in the name of efficiency or something? Now you simply claim that ethnic Chinese in Hong Kong aren't yuppie enough. This is great! You backed yourself into a corner for me!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    You need to concern yourself further, then.
    That's rather trite, sir. The free market can circulate currency without the producer manipulating the psychological stimuli of the consumer in some way; but history has shown that the producer has done otherwise for its own benefit. The fire is burning and nothing is going to put it out.

  8. #38
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Therefore its polices are derived from general Western principles of free markets which was entirely my point.

    Standards of living and upward mobility run rings around anything nearby. Didn't you start by insisting non-whites were simply being killed in the name of efficiency or something? Now you simply claim that ethnic Chinese in Hong Kong aren't yuppie enough. This is great! You backed yourself into a corner for me!
    Congratulations on completely missing the point. Impressive, really. Might it have less to do with economic philosophy and more to do with material infrastructure brought in by the British (plus a naturally desirable location)?

    Not to mention, one case does not a point make. Neither do straw men. The numbers say that the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer in Hong Kong. That you don't have a problem with this is your prerogative. It's not an undeniably good thing.

  9. #39
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Thumbs down The Limitation of Power

    Both socialism and libertarianism intuitively seek power.

    Whereas it is liberal democracy that counter-intuitively seeks the limitation of power.

    And it is liberal democracy that has put the runs on the board.

    For liberal democracy abolished institutional slavery for the first time in 1833 in the House of Commons.

    And it was liberal democracy that gained the vote for women for the first time in 1904 in Australia and New Zealand.

    And it was liberal democracy that first brought child sexual abuse before our Criminal Courts in 1990.

    So between 1833 and 1990 liberal democracy has limited power over slaves, women and children.

    This is a great historical success.

    We have the runs on the board but we find ourselves batting today against Islamists and authoritarians of many a stripe.

    And although the game is long and the day is hot, we shall meet the test.
    Last edited by Mole; 01-20-2010 at 10:30 PM.

  10. #40
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Might it have less to do with economic philosophy and more to do with material infrastructure brought in by the British (plus a naturally desirable location)?
    Former colonies (etc.) like Kenya and Sierra Leone, both possessing major ports, make that unlikely. And Hong Kong continues to outperform in a way that couldn't possibly be traced to now-aging Imperial material supports. But again, we're so far from your initial hyperbole that you may as well concede.

    Not to mention, one case does not a point make.
    Of course it does, because Hong Kong is a striking exception to the Eastern Hemisphere. Very libertarian, broad prosperity.

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