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View Poll Results: do you support a public smoking ban?

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  • yes, I support a smoking ban both indoors and outdoors

    17 22.08%
  • yes, I support a smoking ban, but only indoors

    32 41.56%
  • no, I do not support a smoking ban/keep things as they were

    28 36.36%
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Thread: smoking ban

  1. #1
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Default smoking ban

    Just out of curiosity, I was wondering about what people think about smoking bans in public places!

    It's been an issue in my town lately and I've been interviewed by several people on my opinion on the issue, so I wanted to know what you guys think about this!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #2
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    I think they're stupid. (Ohio got hit hard with that!)

    I don't smoke simply because I personally don't like it, but I don't care if other people do. Smoking only takes off the later years of life where you start bitching and complaining about everything. It seems to have more benefits than anything.

    And no one's forcing people to stay in public establishments. This isn't Russia.

  3. #3
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    I voted for the indoors ban.

    The economist in me requires a good argument for market failure before sanctioning any kind of government intervention (why, if people truly want non-smoking restaurants and malls, aren't they in place without the ban?), but I believe I have one such argument (or actually two, but both hinge on one assumption):

    1. Most (not all, but most) smokers suffer from present bias; they would like to quit but they are unable to due to lack of self-control. Banning smoking indoors provides an added incentive they themselves desire to quit.

    2. Many non-smokers also suffer from present bias; they don't want to be exposed to smoke in general (which may explain why workplaces have managed to institute bans voluntarily) but they figure this one time won't hurt. Whenever groups who are going out together are made up of smokers and non-smokers, the group will therefore usually (not always, but usually) head to a place that allows smoking, thus artifically reducing the demand for non-smoking locations.

    I think banning smoking outdoors would be taking paternalism too far, however. There are some smokers who don't want to quit and as long as they don't expose others to smoke I don't see why that's anybody else's business.

  4. #4
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Well, I hate smoking.
    Wasted money on the cigarettes.
    Wasted money on curing the diseases caused by the cigarettes....

    I'm in favor of the restrictions.

    It catches my attention that these bans are apparently being linked to a decline in smoking.
    If you ban a drug, people keep taking it, but if you bury it in bureaucracy, nobody wants it anymore.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Default

    What economica said * 2

    However, I am one of the ones that won't go somewhere if they allow smoking indoors - I'm sensitive to it, although not as much as wood-burning fireplaces. But my social bonds are weak... I did put up with it for a while in pool halls, but now I don't go at all (although it has been banned there for a long time, but I'm out of the game). Now I don't really care what my friends want or need. Once upon a time I thought that social bonds instilled an obligation - I've since learned that the bond goes two ways and it is their want that instills a cost upon me. It isn't a cost I pay for their company upfront, it is a negotiation. In the end, the negotiation is simple between friends... but without a place to go to, it was pointless. The ban allows it to happen.

    The major other factor is that there is a pressure to have everyone together when we go out. If 1/x smokes, a disportionate amount of people must accommodate the smoker.

    But then again, my current friends don't smoke and we have an indoor ban in place now... and my eating out budget shows it

  6. #6
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    We have a city-wide indoor (and bus shelter) smoking ban.

    I can't express how strongly I am in favour of it. I don't think it's right to allow people to harm other people with their smoke. Back when restaurants allowed smoking, it was disgusting having to eat through a cloud of smoke.

    I have no problem with allowing public smoking outdoors provided that it's not somewhere where others need to be (bus shelters, etc). But forcing people to breath carcinogenic, gross second-hand smoke is not right.

    And you can't say "go somewhere non-smoking"...everywhere will allow smoking if there is a demand for it. Bars and clubs would lose business by outlawing smoking unless it was in effect everywhere..it needs to be a universal ban or everyone would allow it for pure economic reasons.

  7. #7
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    And you can't say "go somewhere non-smoking"...everywhere will allow smoking if there is a demand for it. Bars and clubs would lose business by outlawing smoking unless it was in effect everywhere..it needs to be a universal ban or everyone would allow it for pure economic reasons.
    I agree, but I think it bears emphasis that allowing smoking is only universally profit-maximizing under the present bias assumption that I made (or another assumption of irrationality).

    Just preempting the standard objection should a libertarian with a little knowledge of neoclassical economics happen upon the thread.

  8. #8
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Default From one consumer's point of view

    I always thought smoking in crowded indoor establishment with drinking and lots of movement within a standing room only floor was an incredibly stupid combination. And I'm so unjudgemental. Ha. But seriously, it's stupid unless you WANT to create a dangerous, highly uncomfortable situation and force people out of your club early or prevent them from coming altogether.

    1) As a regular club goer, I've been burned by a lit cigareete "accidentally" and so has at least 1 other friend. People get drunk and hold a cigarette in one hand a beer in the other and start telegraphing their arms wildly on the dancefloor not 1/2 an inch away from other people. Bad idea.

    2) With a lot of sweaty bodies, after about 20 minutes, the combination of smoke and humidity hit you like nasty tidal wive. In some poorly ventiliated establishments (which is most of them) after 20 minutes of the wall hitting, I have to leave. Or I find the nearest and only fan and stand under it stuck to the place and then leave. My friends also have this weakness for oxygen -- we need it. I have also passed out in one place (no I was not drunk, I had 1 mixed drink in 2 hours prior) but there were other factors. Plus your eyes sting. Wear contacts? Ha, good luck.

    3) Your clothes STINK to high heaven. Not even the next day, but immediately upon entering and especially upon exiting the club. My ISTJ friend would practically pick her clothes based on the stinky environement and throw her clothes in the dryer as soon as she got home.

    Coming from CA who was an early adopter of 'no smoking indoors', I first experienced clubbing without smoke. Then I moved to the east coast. YIKES. Yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck. I seriously could not believe people, and DRUNK people at that, were allowed to hold lit cigarettes anywhere and everywhere in the club. Especially since they check you for weapons at the door...I mean, a lit cigarette or a shank, they could both poke your eye out!! Lol. But seriously.

    Having said that, I'm fine with a the compromise of smoking outdoors or even having extremely well ventilated indoor 'smoking lounges' at otherwise non-smoking establishments. Like the smoking lounges they use to have at airports. Why? PT and Economica already stated some reasons.

    BTW, I grew up in a family (not just the nuclear unit, I'm talking entire extended family) of chain smokers. I hate smoking. But, I know some people smoke and that's fine.

    Outdoor smoking is a good compromise. Ventilation and evils 1-3 that I listed are not problems. However, if I saw a table of 12 who were all lighting up, I might opt to sit very far away or indoors instead, but I would not begrudge them that. I had a friend (ISTJ) who got PISSED that one woman was smoking something stinky on the patio, but I didn't mind. Smokers have needs too in semi-public space, I understand.

    And in a club environemnt, outdoor smoking actually strengthens the social aspect of smoking and creates a second opportunity to meet people outside the noise and chaos of the club.

    I'm also fine with smoking indoors in some bars that DON'T have a dancefloor and are traditional quiet bars where the evils I listed in 1-3 are minimal. I also feel that bars are more about the straight up vice of drinking (hence, the 'bar') and smoking and drinking just seem to go hand in hand.

  9. #9
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Default

    I hate it. I don't smoke so it doesn't effect me personally but, still I honestly don't care if you smoke or not. And I like the smell of cigarettes.

  10. #10
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Default

    while I'd naturally fall into the 2nd group, the tipping point for me to put me in the 1st group is that I'm Canadian and we have public health care. and smokers consume a ridiculous amount of resources with all their cancer treatments, etc.

    or they should have mandatory private health care and not drain the public system. then i could deal with #2.

    i HATE when adults smoke in vehicles that have children in them, though. that's plain human cruelty. the kids can't choose alternative transportation like adults can.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
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