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View Poll Results: do you support a public smoking ban?

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  • yes, I support a smoking ban both indoors and outdoors

    17 22.08%
  • yes, I support a smoking ban, but only indoors

    32 41.56%
  • no, I do not support a smoking ban/keep things as they were

    28 36.36%
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Thread: smoking ban

  1. #11
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    And you can't say "go somewhere non-smoking"...everywhere will allow smoking if there is a demand for it. Bars and clubs would lose business by outlawing smoking unless it was in effect everywhere..it needs to be a universal ban or everyone would allow it for pure economic reasons.
    Actually, it is a universal indoor ban in the whole state of CA, at least in 'enclosed areas'. There is at least 1 local bar I know of that gets away with smoking indoors ... I think mostly because it's an old school dive and the regulars don't care. And of course, cigar bars can get away with it (I think - but they have to meet ventilation standards).

    I love my state.

    I have seen some funny backlash in other cities though like smoker's lounges with signs that say, "non-smokers NOT ALLOWED!"

  2. #12
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I suppose I should respond to this since I started it! I'm all for banning smoking in indoor public locations except for bars. I think that smoking and drinking naturally go together, and though it might be nice to have a non-smoking section to the bars for some people, smoking shouldn't be banned for everyone. Smoking was banned in all indoor locations in my town, which means that the bars in our sister town have a lot more patrons anymore.

    I definitley have to agree that smoking in a crowded club is a horrible idea as well!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #13
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I suppose I should respond to this since I started it! I'm all for banning smoking in indoor public locations except for bars. I think that smoking and drinking naturally go together, and though it might be nice to have a non-smoking section to the bars for some people, smoking shouldn't be banned for everyone. Smoking was banned in all indoor locations in my town, which means that the bars in our sister town have a lot more patrons anymore.

    I definitley have to agree that smoking in a crowded club is a horrible idea as well!
    Will my earlier post lose all validity if I say sometimes when I am pleasantly L-I-T and people start giving out cigarettes and especially if that said someone is quite the looker I'll take one and have them light my cigarette for me all while gazing seductively in their eyes?

    Because I don't.

    Hahahaha.

    But, I'm sure it would be a good way of picking up folks.

    Whatever, that sounds exactly like what happens in 'dry counties'. In the south, my ex has to drive to another county to buy alcohol.

    Actually...someone was telling me about a whole family of small-time mafioso who would just pack their car with cigarettes and alcohol, cross the county line, and sell their goods to the locals. 'Cause you know, that's technically illegal.

  4. #14
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Will my earlier post lose all validity if I say sometimes when I am pleasantly L-I-T and people start giving out cigarettes and especially if that said someone is quite the looker I'll take one and have them light my cigarette for me all while gazing seductively in their eyes?

    Because I don't.

    Hahahaha.

    But, I'm sure it would be a good way of picking up folks.

    Whatever, that sounds exactly like what happens in 'dry counties'. In the south, my ex has to drive to another county to buy alcohol.

    Actually...someone was telling me about a whole family of small-time mafioso who would just pack their car with cigarettes and alcohol, cross the county line, and sell their goods to the locals. 'Cause you know, that's technically illegal.
    It is laborious to eat the johnny cake and have it.
    Some people manage to do it all the same.

  5. #15
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    while I'd naturally fall into the 2nd group, the tipping point for me to put me in the 1st group is that I'm Canadian and we have public health care. and smokers consume a ridiculous amount of resources with all their cancer treatments, etc.

    or they should have mandatory private health care and not drain the public system. then i could deal with #2.
    While I appreciate this argument (incidentally, I too live in a country with public health care ) I see several problems with it:

    1) It's a slippery slope. [i]Lots[i] of behavior drains the public health care system. Should we ban alcohol too? How about overweight people - should they be allowed free health care? What about people who get caught driving without their seatbelts on?

    2) Cause and effect are not clear-cut. Smoking increases the risk of lung cancer and respiratory problems, but non-smokers are not immune to these ailments and some smokers get them who would have gotten them even if they hadn't smoked. Even if doctors can always tell whether a patient has ever smoked (can they?), it doesn't necessarily follow that his smoking caused the ailment. If someone smokes two packs a day for forty years and then gets lung cancer, we might be comfortable assuming that he brought it upon himself, but what about someone who smokes on and off for five years, quits and then gets lung cancer thirty-five years later?

    And the kicker:

    3) People dying from smoking-related ailments may not constitute the drain on public finances that they are often assumed to. First of all, they die earlier than they otherwise would have, which in a country like mine (and Canada?) means they forgo several years of state-financed pension. Second, it's not like all non-smokers die of inexpensive heart attacks. Many of the people who succumb to smoking-related ailments would have ended up draining the public health care system anyway sooner or later. The smoker who dies at age 65 of a smoking-related ailment instead of withdrawing his pension for ten years and then dying of another drawn-out disease is actually doing the rest of us a favor.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I suppose I should respond to this since I started it! I'm all for banning smoking in indoor public locations except for bars. I think that smoking and drinking naturally go together, and though it might be nice to have a non-smoking section to the bars for some people, smoking shouldn't be banned for everyone.
    The minority of smokers who don't want to quit are definitely the losers when a ban is instituted, however, I believe it's worth hurting them (/you? ) for the sake of the present-biased smokers and non-smokers who suffer without the indoors ban (see post #3) - not because I have greater sympathy for the (would-be) non-smokers, but because I believe the benefit to them outweighs the cost to the relatively few hardcore smokers.

  6. #16
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    It is laborious to eat the johnny cake and have it.
    Some people manage to do it all the same.
    ...

    ...

    ...

    ...

    What the hell does that mean?


  7. #17
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    It is laborious to eat the johnny cake and have it.
    Some people manage to do it all the same.
    Ahhh, I get it now!

    ...

    ...



    Wildcat -- you are a dirtybird!
    Last edited by CzeCze; 11-20-2007 at 06:10 AM. Reason: Just like the title says

  8. #18
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Both, sorry! Why should we all suffer because you choose a habit that shortens your lifespan?

    However I do agree with whatever's point about banning smoking at bars. Booze and fags do go together so I think an exception can be made for an outdoor patio so that smokers can gag each other instead of the non smokers inside.

    I am also a former smoker and I can tell you that it was very hard for me to quit. There are still times when I think about having just one, however I know that is not a possibility as one will become a pack and so on and I made a promise not to ever smoke again.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  9. #19
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    I've argued this one before so I'll be brief (it'll hopefully stem the backlash).

    #1 Banning smoking in public places.
    It should be encourage in my view but not enforced. Sure there should be smoke free zones (I'm talking areas of the CBD not areas in a bar). Perhaps the entire city centre should have smoke free establishments. I'm not that opposed to all non private buildings being non smoking by law though. Why not? I opt to smoke...I did it partially so I could go outside for five minutes without everyone thinking I'm about to top myself and following me!!!

    #2 Private clubs.
    This has been passed in England and it's a pile of horse manure! If I wish to set up a club for smokers I would advertise it as a club for smokers, warn any prospective employees that it's a place for smokers and so forth. They've now outlawed them and why? Because it discriminates against non smokers. They can't work there. Baloney. I can't work in a women's underwear section...hell I can't even walk near women's changing areas in clothes shops (this is when I'm shopping with the missus before you start) without being shooed away. It looks like some forms of discrimination are more acceptable than others.

    #3 Health Care.
    Someone worked this out and there'd be a shortfall in the NHS over here if everyone gave up smoking tomorrow. Know why? Cause the hideous taxes they levy on cigarettes funds the damn NHS! £5+ for 20 cigarettes? What do people think it's for? Better tobacco?

    #Smoking outdoors.
    There's rumours about trying to ban people from smoking outside now. Parks, certain areas where people congregate. Okay this again is fine in theory as people don't want the smoke but my question is when is this theory going to be applied to things like 4x4s? They get driven everywhere, half of them are used for the school run, they do 2 mpg and they get in people's way far too much.

    If only governments spent as much time acting against the other ills of the world as they have on smoking. Perhaps then it'd be believable that they deserve their substantial wages. Perhaps then I'd think them more worthy of consideration than the typical middle manager. At the moment I could quite happily wipe most of them off the face of the earth.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #20
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    This has been passed in England and it's a pile of horse manure! If I wish to set up a club for smokers I would advertise it as a club for smokers, warn any prospective employees that it's a place for smokers and so forth. They've now outlawed them and why? Because it discriminates against non smokers. They can't work there. Baloney. I can't work in a women's underwear section...hell I can't even walk near women's changing areas in clothes shops (this is when I'm shopping with the missus before you start) without being shooed away. It looks like some forms of discrimination are more acceptable than others.
    I forgot to mention the point about the impact on employees of such places, but it's also a valid point.

    I don't think it's that it discriminates against non-smokers as much as it's that it kills employees, especially non-smokers but smokers too. Kinda a big difference. Yeah, you could argue that they choose to work there but if every restaurant, bar etc in the city is smoky (as they will be if there is no smoking ban--that's what it was like here before it was put in place), and the only skills the person has are bartending/waitressing etc, it's not really that much of a choice.

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