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  1. #11
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    And Google is throwing in the towel? They're saying, sure, China will see explosive growth in internet usage over the next ten years but what the hell, you guys don't do e-commerce that much so we've had it with the compromises and the delays and the deals and not making that much money and still having to manage you guys as our managers?
    Actually I don't think it has anything to do with money. I saw an interview with one of the google founders (can't remember which one - the one born in russia I think) who was tallking about the desision to go into china in the first place. He said that they almost didn't because of the censorship which went against the main philosophy behind googles creation which was freedom of information and that some freedom of information was still ultimatly better than none. I think they are thinking of leaving because now china are trying to further limit freedom of information/speach (in thisparticular case) by using google to stop human right activists which goes against the reason they are there in the first place.
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  2. #12
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    All talk, no action. Tell me when they really start pulling the plug.

    Google giving up on china is as likely as Pigs flying.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    It looks like the Chinese hackers are getting as sophisticated as the Israeli ones, clever to target the private sector rather than government though.

  4. #14
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I agree with cloud.

    The fact is that Google went into the Chinese market willingly offering censorship, and there was a lot of US backlash against that. But Google didn't care, they went anyway.

    Now because they can't get what they want (strict chinese gov't support against hackers) they are trying to milk the American public's sympathies and trying to scare the Chinese into submission.

    They are going nowhere. This is a negotiation tactic and they are hoping that China doesn't call their bluff.

    Fuck Google, but great example of true capitalism at it finest.

  5. #15
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I agree with cloud.

    The fact is that Google went into the Chinese market willingly offering censorship, and there was a lot of US backlash against that. But Google didn't care, they went anyway.

    Now because they can't get what they want (strict chinese gov't support against hackers) they are trying to milk the American public's sympathies and trying to scare the Chinese into submission.

    They are going nowhere. This is a negotiation tactic and they are hoping that China doesn't call their bluff.

    Fuck Google, but great example of true capitalism at it finest.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  6. #16
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I agree with cloud.

    The fact is that Google went into the Chinese market willingly offering censorship, and there was a lot of US backlash against that. But Google didn't care, they went anyway.

    Now because they can't get what they want (strict chinese gov't support against hackers) they are trying to milk the American public's sympathies and trying to scare the Chinese into submission.

    They are going nowhere. This is a negotiation tactic and they are hoping that China doesn't call their bluff.
    I dunno. All negotiations of any public consequence with China/Chinese have a built-in OTT button and it gets hammered pretty much every time: western bias assaulting our beloved national sovereignty. What's in it for China to negotiate with imperialists like Google? To enter into such negotiations the Chinese have to allow literally in public that entities other than the Communist Party may determine national policy. Inside China there is considerable hysteria on this point, generated partly by the Party itself as a bulwark to their leadership, but kept alive by actual Chinese national sentiment.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd say Google is as good as out of the Chinese market.

    What's blocked in China: Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Hotmail intermittently, name a blog site that isn't blocked, whole server domains if they support inappropriate forum content. For a long time wikipedia was blocked. Currently imbd.com is blocked because they host the trailer for When the Dragon Swallowed the Sun. And if you've never talked Tibet with a Chinese, you don't know how the sense of distress that documentary conveys can be real.
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  7. #17
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I dunno. All negotiations of any public consequence with China/Chinese have a built-in OTT button and it gets hammered pretty much every time: western bias assaulting our beloved national sovereignty. What's in it for China to negotiate with imperialists like Google? To enter into such negotiations the Chinese have to allow literally in public that entities other than the Communist Party may determine national policy. Inside China there is considerable hysteria on this point, generated partly by the Party itself as a bulwark to their leadership, but kept alive by actual Chinese national sentiment.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd say Google is as good as out of the Chinese market.

    What's blocked in China: Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Hotmail intermittently, name a blog site that isn't blocked, whole server domains if they support inappropriate forum content. For a long time wikipedia was blocked. Currently imbd.com is blocked because they host the trailer for When the Dragon Swallowed the Sun. And if you've never talked Tibet with a Chinese, you don't know how the sense of distress that documentary conveys can be real.
    Oh yes, I know. That's my point - that Google is trying to call their hand at a bluff. There is no way that China will concede to them.

    They can stay or not, but all this press is about trying to strong arm the Chinese government, which will never happen. And the point is, they knew about the restrictions of this government prior to entering the market, so why act surprised now?

    Is facebook blocked there now, as well?

  8. #18
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Yep, Facebook is out. I forget for how long it's been gone, for much of 2009 anyway.

    Re Google: it's really hard to think of Google as trying a strongarm tactic. What it looks like is a last ditch effort, preliminary to leaving. I guess i think it looks like that because, like, who strong arms the Chinese? Well, lots of countries and corporations, obviously, but in public? That this thing is public, that Google are announcing their frustrations, is a losing tactic in negotiation, particularly for commercial and moral interests within China. How can they possibly be allowed a public relations victory? Chinese netizens themselves will decry such a thing, far more than they will decry losing Google. Depends how the story gets framed within China, I guess.

    The influence of Chinese on the Internet: they were a big source of noise over, say, the Olympics vs Tibet before the Communist Party started saying hardline things at that time. The CP played catch-up, and there were signs they actually tried to get their citizens to tone down the Internet noise. I dunno what the Chinese net is currently saying about Google, though.

    It all depends, I guess.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  9. #19
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Google to shut China search engine

    By Richard Waters in San Francisco and Kathrin Hille in Beijing
    Published: March 12 2010 20:11 | Last updated: March 13 2010 02:16


    Google has drawn up detailed plans for the closure of its Chinese search engine and is now “99.9 per cent” certain to go ahead as talks over censorship with the Chinese authorities have reached an apparent impasse, according to a person familiar with the company’s thinking.

    In a hardening of positions on both sides, the Chinese government also on Friday threw down a direct public challenge to the US search company, with a warning that it was not prepared to compromise on internet censorship to stop Google leaving.

    The signs that Google was on the brink of closing Google.cn, its local search service in China, came two months after it promised to stop bowing to censorship there. But while a decision could be made very soon, the company is likely to take some time to follow through with the plan as it seeks an orderly closure and takes steps to protect local employees from retaliation by the authorities, the person familiar with its position said.

    Google is also seeking ways to keep its other operations in China going, although some executives fear that a backlash from the Chinese authorities could make it almost impossible to keep a presence in the country.




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