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  1. #41
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The government only responds when the consequences of the bitching become greater than the bribes.
    The U.S. Justice Department, which is opening the investigation, is in liberal progressive hands right now. Especially with Eric Holder.

    So this is more of a direct reason for why the Antitrust Division of the U.S. Justice Department is increasing activity right now. It's mostly a liberal issue, with the people lobbying against it mostly on the Right.

  2. #42
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The U.S. Justice Department, which is opening the investigation, is in liberal progressive hands right now. Especially with Eric Holder.

    So this is more of a direct reason for why the Antitrust Division of the U.S. Justice Department is increasing activity right now. It's mostly a liberal issue, with the people lobbying against it mostly on the Right.
    I don't feel so good when I read things like this:

    Michael R. Taylor was an assistant to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) commissioner before he left to work for a law firm on gaining FDA approval of Monsanto’s artificial growth hormone in the 1980s. Taylor then became deputy commissioner of the FDA from 1991 to 1994. Taylor was later re-appointed to the FDA in August 2009 by President Barack Obama.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #43
    Member Sture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I wouldn't use the word evil for much of anything myself. Evil would indeed be dysphemistic, but successful is euphemistic if you ask me. Successful does not capture the point of concern.
    Well, I thought I had borrowed the word evil from the title or OP and just casually used it as a point of recognition from the previous debate. That was obviously wrong. The word successful I used ironically, imitating the cynical point of view of the corporations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I would state that we certainly do over-produce.
    That's a given. That question was more of a rhetorical nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    In many cases there are less productive but more efficient means.
    Exactly, well put


    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    However, the question here isn't even really about productivity or efficiency. What we have to question here is why a company like Monsanto has to be so hazardous to its surroundings?
    I agree that the question isn't about productivity or efficiency. What I'm trying to express is that the debate over how corporations could reduce their negative effects on nature has an inherent acceptance of corporations. I am seeking confirmation that you all are agreeing on my wider conclusion that corporations are inherently greedy, inconsiderate, totalitarian in structure, and many other things that I presume you would consider bad, or, if you will, evil.
    Jumping ahead of that confirmation I suggested we lead the discussion towards constructive questions of how we might imagine a world without corporations.

  4. #44
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    I don't think that just because you can draw lines and connections between politicians and professional researchers/whomever that means there's a conflict of interest or something questionable. Sure ask away, but how do you know he didn't get the job simply because he's knowledgeable?


    It's like when people started showing pictures of Donald Rumsfield shaking hands with Saddam Hussein when the most recent Gulf War broke out in order to suggest some kind of grander conspiracy, when it really didn't mean anything at all. He was Secretary of State (or whatever, i cant remember what office) at the time and that was his job.

    Just because so-and-so worked in the past for this-and-that doesn't mean they're in cahoots with them. More often than not, a job is just a job.

  5. #45
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber
    Just because so-and-so worked in the past for this-and-that doesn't mean they're in cahoots with them.
    When laws in the best interest of the corporation and not of the citizens affected start getting passed, it does.

  6. #46
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sture View Post
    Jumping ahead of that confirmation I suggested we lead the discussion towards constructive questions of how we might imagine a world without corporations.
    Well, again, I say look into cooperatives. They are part of the solution in my opinion (if we can ever shove them past the corporate behemoths and leviathons in the first place).

    However, where you are bound to find me and Lateralus part ways, is on the question of the government. I'm going to look for solutions through increased government presence, and point to what goes wrong without government, and Lateralus will presumably look for solutions through decreased government presence, and point to what goes wrong with government.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #47
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post

    However, where you are bound to find me and Lateralus part ways, is on the question of the government. I'm going to look for solutions through increased government presence, and point to what goes wrong without government, and Lateralus will presumably look for solutions through decreased government presence, and point to what goes wrong with government.
    Heh, I don't think so. The other day he was musing about what he'd do as President, and it involved killing corporate leaders and their families. That's tyrany!

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  8. #48
    Member Sture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    However, where you are bound to find me and Lateralus part ways, is on the question of the government. I'm going to look for solutions through increased government presence, and point to what goes wrong without government, and Lateralus will presumably look for solutions through decreased government presence, and point to what goes wrong with government.
    Is there a particular ideology that ties you to that path towards utopia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, again, I say look into cooperatives. They are part of the solution in my opinion (if we can ever shove them past the corporate behemoths and leviathons in the first place).
    You wrote that government measures are what you primarily look to when thinking of ways to better society. I don't know what ideology if any you adhere to or how much of a centralist you are, but doesn't cooperatives have to be considered a highly decentralized model for production?

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    Heh, I don't think so. The other day he was musing about what he'd do as President, and it involved killing corporate leaders and their families. That's tyrany!
    I guess killing leaders of the economy would in practice entail an expansion of government as you would have to assume he would replace them with his own men. But I don't quite get the general connection between tyranny and big government, if that's what you meant?

  9. #49
    Riva
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    The Sisterhood

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...php?groupid=31

    All the members are sexists.

  10. #50
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sture View Post
    Is there a particular ideology that ties you to that path towards utopia?
    I do not believe in utopia.

    And I find it hard to put an accurate word on what my beliefs are. Here you'll often see me called a socialist, and I accept it. But I know socialism is a broad concept and means different things to different people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sture View Post
    You wrote that government measures are what you primarily look to when thinking of ways to better society. I don't know what ideology if any you adhere to or how much of a centralist you are, but doesn't cooperatives have to be considered a highly decentralized model for production?
    A government can wield high obligation without being totally centralized. A libertarian proposes a decentralized government asking few and small obligations. An authoritarian proposes a centralized government asking many and great obligations. Whatever I am, I propose something decentralized asking many and great obligations.

    It's all about encompassing interests.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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