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  1. #61
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    It is disngenious to seperate Haiti out of the regional economic and social context. Haiti might be the poorest but the whole region is materially rich, yet the majority live in poverty. Argentina alone produces enough food to feed all of Latin America, and yet millions live in hunger there alone. So maybe we have to look elsewhere for the source of the problem.
    Not completely true.

    Latin America represents something close to 600 million inhabitants, and Argentina's agricultural output is far from that.

    ---

    Anyway.

    The source of the problem, as you call it, is in fact very complex. And I fear you can't simplify or explain it though the simplistic vision of Marxist class analysis. Do you think classic Marx lectures could teach Haitians not to make as many children as before?

    When you have a devastated environment, there's not much you can do, aside from seeing this country and its society slowly dies out of its own agony.

    I tell you: Within twenty years from now, Haiti will be on the verge of total annihilation, just like many Sahelian countries. And this will happen whether we decide to help them or not -even if this should not prevent us to help them: do we simply have a choice?-


    We have only one planet. And its ressources are more limited than what we think they are, especially in developed countries. You cannot instantly transfer ressources from Argentina to Haiti thanks to a kind magic. Everything has a cost, not only in money, but also in energy.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #62
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Thank you.

    And seriously, it was only by chance that everyone writing here wasn't born in that "human dump". It's so easy to be smug when you have good fortune on your side.
    It's even easier to say it when you have personally worked in those countries, thanks to a few NGO.

    Have you?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #63
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    ^^very good point, Blackmail!.

    Considering that these resources are limited, what is the best solution in your opinion.

    Should we train them to use condoms, and then provide the people with them? Should we evacuate the country? Should we let everyone just die slowly?

  4. #64
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It's even easier to say it when you have personally worked in those countries, thanks to a few NGO.

    Have you?
    Yes, I have lived and worked in and around Latin America and the Caribbean. And some of my roots are from the region.

  5. #65
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    ^^very good point, Blackmail!.

    Considering that these resources are limited, what is the best solution in your opinion.

    Should we train them to use condoms, and then provide the people with them? Should we evacuate the country? Should we let everyone just die slowly?
    I don't know, there are a lot of ways to slow down population growth, condoms is one of them. There are many other ways, though.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #66
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    It's really very silly to think that lack of food resources is the only reason for hunger to exist.
    It's not the only reason, but it may become the major one very, very soon.

    Within twenty years form now, we shall see starving children everywhere in Africa, in Bengladesh, or in countries like Haiti. Million and million of them, dozens of million.
    It's impossible to develop an already poor country that has to sustain a large population, and when it has to import half of its cereals, half of its basic agricultural needs. And in 2030, the issue will have worsened by a 2.5 factor.

    They have reached their own environmental and economical limit, yet in our Western fortresses of abondance, far, far away from them, it seems we do not fully realize it.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #67
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It's not the only reason, but it may become the major one very, very soon.

    Within twenty years form now, we shall see starving children everywhere in Africa, in Bengladesh, or in countries like Haiti. Million and million of them, dozens of million.
    It's impossible to develop an already poor country that has to sustain a large population, and when it has to import half of its cereals, half of its basic agricultural neeed. And in 2030, the issue will have worsened by a 2.5 factor.

    They have reached their own environmental and economical limit, yet in our Western fortresses of abondance, far, far away from them, it seems we do not fully realize it.
    My one question is, why are people still reproducing if they're starving? I thought after a certain loss of weight people became infertile.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #68
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It's not the only reason, but it may become the major one very, very soon.

    Within twenty years form now, we shall see starving children everywhere in Africa, in Bengladesh, or in countries like Haiti. Million and million of them, dozens of million.
    It's impossible to develop an already poor country that has to sustain a large population, and when it has to import half of its cereals, half of its basic agricultural neeed. And in 2030, the issue will have worsened by a 2.5 factor.

    They have reached their own environmental and economical limit, yet in our Western fortresses of abondance, far, far away from them, it seems we do not fully realize it.
    I'm curious if you think these populations will reach extinction.

  9. #69
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    ^^very good point, Blackmail!.

    Considering that these resources are limited, what is the best solution in your opinion.

    Should we train them to use condoms, and then provide the people with them? Should we evacuate the country? Should we let everyone just die slowly?
    The truth is I have no idea. And we're not the ones who are in position to implement these. Plus it would be imperialism: they have the right to decide for themselves, and not listen the so-called "generous white advisor/missionary" from the NGO.

    In older times, when an area became environmentally unsustainable, people just moved away.

    Now we have borders, and possible cultural/ethnic conflicts. I don't think Argentina would be ready to invite millions of Haitian refugees in their countryside. I don't think any country will.

    So that's why the West prefers to hypocritically let them die alone and do nothing... or only when the images are too awful for our own guilt and comfort.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #70
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Providing other countries with condoms is imperialism?

    ...oops.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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