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  1. #11
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    And then consider that most of them are there in the first place because they are descendents of African slaves. Not even the ancestors of these people made the decision to be there, for the most part.

    Raw deal.
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  2. #12
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I trully don't understand why people get excited about things like this.

    1. They are living on the border of two tectonic plates. Where the potential for very stong earthquakes is the strongest.
    2. It was also known that most buildings over there can't sustain this kind of a earthquake.
    3. It is well know for decades that they are very poor country in every way. I mean no one was really that much interested in helping them before this.


    Basicly it was a tragedy ment to happen and now everybody are getting emotional about this. What is technically pointless if we overlook the fact that is hypocritical in a way.
    I see it more as a warning sign for other nations,... California, and even Japan live in probably the most precarious situations as well.

    Would you say the same thing if it happened in one of those 2 places?

    Does the wealth status make a difference in how you perceive the level of importance, when it comes to human life?...

    Hypocritical?... I'll relinquish my question if you go to Haiti and dig out the bodies, and tend to the wounded and homeless.

    They are poor because people with your attitude has forgotten about them.
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  3. #13
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    And then consider that most of them are there in the first place because they are descendents of African slaves. Not even the ancestors of these people made the decision to be there, for the most part.

    Raw deal.
    Very raw.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  4. #14
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    What is wrong with you? So people should have known better, I don't think that helps anyone who is suffering now because they have lost everything they own/their friends and relatives/their house etc. If you don't feel any compassion at all then at least keep your opinion to yourself, it's not helping. Or actually help this poor country by donating some money to support the emergency services, that would be useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    I see it more as a warning sign for other nations,... California, and even Japan live in probably the most precarious situations as well.

    Would you say the same thing if it happened in one of those 2 places?

    Does the wealth status make a difference in how you perceive the level of importance, when it comes to human life?...

    Hypocritical?... I'll relinquish my question if you go to Haiti and dig out the bodies, and tend to the wounded and homeless.

    They are poor because people with your attitude has forgotten about them.

    I will answer to you both in one replay.


    No I would not change my opinion if Somthing like this happens in California or Japan. Because the principle is the same and wealth does not matter to me.
    In those two cases I would be even more unsensitive since people know where they live and choose to live there.
    However gelogical logic is clear.


    I think all of this is hypocritical. They needed help long before this happened and now everybody are so sorry for them. While in a about the month from now most people will not remember that this even happened.


    Also we can go a level deeper than this.
    Why would I donate money for the salvation of Haiti ?


    Those people need food ,tents, blankets, tolet paper , fresh water ..... etc ?

    I mean what are they going to do with money ?

    The country is in chaos so it is useless at the moment over there.
    Unless of course someone wants to sell / will sell them what they need.
    They needed many of those things before this happened but they did not have enought to pay for it. While now money is being collected just so that they will have the money to pay for it.

    This is why I call it hypocritical. Not to mention that it quite greedy when it comes to some individuals.
    So to be honest I am fascinated with a number people that tend to overlook this "hole in the story".

    It is nice to help people but I am afraid that someone is manipulating your sense of empathy. We must help ourselves first, before we can actually help them. So forgive me but I am cynical when it comes to the entire "lets help those people" thing.

  5. #15
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I will answer to you both in one replay.


    No I would not change my opinion if Somthing like this happens in California or Japan. Because the principle is the same and wealth does not matter to me.
    In those two cases I would be even more unsensitive since people know where they live and choose to live there.
    However gelogical logic is clear.


    I think all of this is hypocritical. They needed help long before this happened and now everybody are so sorry for them. While in a about the month from now most people will not remember that this even happened.


    Also we can go a level deeper than this.
    Why would I donate money for the salvation of Haiti ?


    Those people need food ,tents, blankets, tolet paper , fresh water ..... etc ?

    I mean what are they going to do with money ?

    The country is in chaos so it is useless at the moment over there.
    Unless of course someone wants to sell / will sell them what they need.
    They needed many of those things before this happened but they did not have enought to pay for it. While now money is being collected just so that they will have the money to pay for it.

    This is why I call it hypocritical. Not to mention that it quite greedy when it comes to some individuals.
    So to be honest I am fascinated with a number people that tend to overlook this "hole in the story".

    It is nice to help people but I am afraid that someone is manipulating your sense of empathy. We must help ourselves first, before we can actually help them. So forgive me but I am cynical when it comes to the entire "lets help those people" thing.
    There are many places in the world that suffer from impoverishment and provide limited opportunities for most who live in them. Some of us try to alleviate what we can by being conscientious consumers or giving time and money. But we can't all be helping every location like this at one time.

    I agree to an extent that what is given attention is usually biased toward natural disasters rather than civil wars and refugee camps. Natural disasters require less background knowledge about local political, social and economic situations to understand. They don't require anyone to think about which groups they judge to be most deserving of help. Also, I think that people in a position to give also superficially identify with the fear of having one's life turned upside down abruptly by a single event, not by periodic warfare, raids and long term strife.

    There are also well traversed methods of administering direct, internationally assisted disaster relief. People have confidence that their money is being well spent and is in good hands.

    This doesn't compel you to give or to pay any heed to what you think is a manipulative, unwarranted degree of attention. But everyone who does want to alleviate the suffering in Haiti (which is greater than "normal" even with the internal strife that has characterized it as of late) should be able to without being pestered about their decision to care or give.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I will answer to you both in one replay.


    No I would not change my opinion if Somthing like this happens in California or Japan. Because the principle is the same and wealth does not matter to me.
    In those two cases I would be even more unsensitive since people know where they live and choose to live there.
    However gelogical logic is clear.


    I think all of this is hypocritical. They needed help long before this happened and now everybody are so sorry for them. While in a about the month from now most people will not remember that this even happened.


    Also we can go a level deeper than this.
    Why would I donate money for the salvation of Haiti ?


    Those people need food ,tents, blankets, tolet paper , fresh water ..... etc ?

    I mean what are they going to do with money ?

    The country is in chaos so it is useless at the moment over there.
    Unless of course someone wants to sell / will sell them what they need.
    They needed many of those things before this happened but they did not have enought to pay for it. While now money is being collected just so that they will have the money to pay for it.

    This is why I call it hypocritical. Not to mention that it quite greedy when it comes to some individuals.
    So to be honest I am fascinated with a number people that tend to overlook this "hole in the story".

    It is nice to help people but I am afraid that someone is manipulating your sense of empathy. We must help ourselves first, before we can actually help them. So forgive me but I am cynical when it comes to the entire "lets help those people" thing.
    I am just seeing the whole situation from a more pragmatic point of view. It doesn't matter if the country has been poor before or not or if the rest of the world cared about them or not, the fact is that they just had the worst earthquake in 200 years and the whole place is a mess. It doesn't help them to philosophise about right or wrong, they need practical support now and since I obviously can't help them in any other way donating is a good option. Of course I am going to choose a charity that has a good reputation but after I have donated the money all I can do is to trust that the chosen charity will do the best with it, the other option would be to be cynical and not to donate at all and that doesn't help anyone.

    And the fact that in one month no one will remember what happened to Haiti is still missing the point, they need help now so people donate now, it's again much more useful than just being cynical about the ways of the world and making that the main reason why you don't give at all. [And no, I am not trying to bash people who don't donate after disasters like this, it's your money after all, I just think that if your main reason for not giving is cynicism that is sad, it might protect you in some ways but it doesn't help anyone else who is in genuine need.]

    Also I don't understand the sentence "We must help ourselves first, before we can actually help them.", compared with Haiti I am doing absolutely great at the moment, I am healthy, have a job, accomodation, food on the table and even extra money that I can spend on luxuries, why would I need extra help?

  7. #17
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    I am just seeing the whole situation from a more pragmatic point of view. It doesn't matter if the country has been poor before or not or if the rest of the world cared about them or not, the fact is that they just had the worst earthquake in 200 years and the whole place is a mess. It doesn't help them to philosophise about right or wrong, they need practical support now and since I obviously can't help them in any other way donating is a good option. Of course I am going to choose a charity that has a good reputation but after I have donated the money all I can do is to trust that the chosen charity will do the best with it, the other option would be to be cynical and not to donate at all and that doesn't help anyone.

    And the fact that in one month no one will remember what happened to Haiti is still missing the point, they need help now so people donate now, it's again much more useful than just being cynical about the ways of the world and making that the main reason why you don't give at all. [And no, I am not trying to bash people who don't donate after disasters like this, it's your money after all, I just think that if your main reason for not giving is cynicism that is sad, it might protect you in some ways but it doesn't help anyone else who is in genuine need.]

    Also I don't understand the sentence "We must help ourselves first, before we can actually help them.", compared with Haiti I am doing absolutely great at the moment, I am healthy, have a job, accomodation, food on the table and even extra money that I can spend on luxuries, why would I need extra help?
    His point is that they needed help before too. But nobody cared. That's why he thinks it's bizarre, and in a way I agree with him. If it takes geological event in order to cultivate global interest, I'm sure a bunch of other suffering groups are hoping for a tsunami or what have you.



  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    His point is that they needed help before too. But nobody cared. That's why he thinks it's bizarre, and in a way I agree with him. If it takes geological event in order to cultivate global interest, I'm sure a bunch of other suffering groups are hoping for a tsunami or what have you.
    Yeah, I do agree with this part of what you and ASO are saying.

    Though I'm a bit disturbed at people saying that they wouldn't feel as bad if it happened in California. What the fuck? Human beings live there too, and they all aren't millionaire movie stars.

    Of course the devastation in Haiti is worse, though, because of the poverty there.

    P.S. There are geological faultlines all over the place. One runs right through Nevada (when I lived in Vegas people told me "when the big one hits and California goes, we go too"), and there's actually one that runs under West Virginia of all places (my sister is a science geek and found this out). While earthquakes aren't as common there, they're still possible. There's really few places to live on earth that are completely shielded from the possibility of natural disaster.

  9. #19
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    The scale of destruction is shocking - possibly 100,000 people dead with hundreds of thousands more injured. Horrible. An entire city just destroyed. It's estimated one in four buildings have been affected. I hope help gets there soon since hospitals and the U.N. relief center were also affected.

    From the BBC's coverage:
    BBC News - Haiti earthquake: Thousands feared dead
    "Haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere and has suffered a number of recent disasters, including four hurricanes and storms in 2008 that killed hundreds."

  10. #20
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    His point is that they needed help before too. But nobody cared. That's why he thinks it's bizarre, and in a way I agree with him. If it takes geological event in order to cultivate global interest, I'm sure a bunch of other suffering groups are hoping for a tsunami or what have you.
    I think that it would be ignorant to assume that impoverished groups in the third world would actively hope for a disaster to obtain relief. They become displaced, suffer the loss of family members, and lose their shelter and possessions (however meager they might seem). Just because most situations in the third world might look the same to you at any time doesn't mean that this is how the people who live there experience them. This past day was not in any way "normal" for the people who were directly affected.

    I think there is a big misconception that people who give of themselves in these situations must have motivations that fit certain criteria for their contributions to be valuable. But, as Lightyear indicated, it doesn't matter. It's just as petty to quibble over why they choose to care as it may be superficial that they do only in the event of a disaster. Even if you think that these people are ignorant, self-congratulatory simps, this is a topic that can be broached without equating the suffering that is occuring with business as usual, thereby diminishing its significance.
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