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  1. #81
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The Saudi Arabian government harbors activist advocates of an ideology that leads to jihadist terrorism, but does not provide sanctuary for any actual perpetrators of jihadist terrorism upon the soil of NATO countries, nor does it sponsor terrorist training camps.

    The United States and its NATO allies couldn't care less about Afghanistan before 9/11, so "clearly," that IS the reason for the invasion.

    And not that it matters in terms of our motivations for being there, but any regime that does not allow women to be educated is "clearly" more misogynistic than the current regime.
    But yet the current regime tried to pass a law legalizing rape in marraige and forbidding women to go out the house without their husbands permission, which even its supprotersin the west were forced to admit was more misogynistic than any law the Taliban ever decreed.

    Pressure on Hamid Karzai to scrap Afghan women's law | World news | The Guardian
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  2. #82
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    Why did you mention WwII?... Do you really need to ask that question?...
    I mentioned WWII to make you consider scenari where strict isolationism may not have been the best alternative.

    Now, why did you mention Israel? I fail to see the link with our discussion or with the thread.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #83
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I mentioned WWII to make you consider scenari where strict isolationism may not have been the best alternative.
    "Best alternative" for who? For the Japanese who were liquidated by nuclear bombs? Or for the people of Dresden? For the Italian and Greek communists massacred by an alliance of Allied troops and ("ex") fascist death squads?

    Or for US capitalists who were able to establish unquestioned global hegemony and overcome the Great Depression via an unprecedented global massacre (justified by the need to "liberate" Europe from a regime which throughout the 1930's had in fact been the only regime to enjoy an icrease, rather than a decrease in absolute terms, of direct capital investments from the US).

    From the point of view of the latter, you're right, isolationsim wouldn't have been a good policy. but why we should all consider ourselves "at one" with the latter, I'm not sure.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  4. #84
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Maybe if the Taliban would just allow "us" (or those international corporations who bribe our politicians) access to build the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline. We wouldn't have to kill all of them? Basically this is a 10 year war supported by the false context that we are invading them because they let some guys camp in their hills. If the Taliban did not let Osama camp in there hill would there have been a 9/11? Most likely regardless of where Osama pitched his tent the outcome would be the same. Invading Afghanistan for over 9 years and hundreds of billions (trillions?) of dollars later seems overkill for their leaders giving Osama a camping permit.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  5. #85
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post



    The point being therefore that despite the occupiers attempts to "divide and rule", the subjected peoples have a higher interest in unity against the invader, placing the resources of the nation (which as I say, can be constructed through struggle, something which seeing as it is being attacked as a whole, would be very rational to do) under the collective control of those who live there, for their benefit, and not the benefit of foreign empires or their treacherous warlord agents*

    *Contrary to the post-modernist view of "Blackmail!", I certainly think there is no serious argument to say that these are simply "players in a complex game", and that in fact it's blindingly obvious that they have a metropolis-periphery relationship, with one as the empire and the other as the local agent.
    Clearly, you have no idea what Afghanistan is. Or rather a very romantic view of it, a view that is clearly not very realistic.

    And it's not "windbagging flabby academics", unfortunately. You cannot try oversimplify this complex situation just for the sake of ideology, especially when you lack ground datas. You would make exactly the same mistakes than those the neocons did.

    I think you should try to gather more informations, especially, (once again) about the history of this country -which is not "many centuries old, but rather a very recent artificial construction-, and about the actual differences between the fanatical Talibans, a cruel warlord like Dostom, and a brave man like Ahmed Shah Massoud was -for instance-.

    Despite what you seem to hope, they did not unite against the so-called "Western invader". Ask yourself why.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #86
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    Israel didn't exist during the 1940s.
    My bad,... I'll retract what I said, and say Palestine instead!
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  7. #87
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    My bad,... I'll retract what I said, and say Palestine instead!
    +1
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #88
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    My bad,... I'll retract what I said, and say Palestine instead!
    Same question:

    What's the link betwen WWII, our discussion, the current conflict in Afghanistan and Palestine?

    I'm just curious.

    Did you try to blame someone or somebody specifically?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #89
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I mentioned WWII to make you consider scenari where strict isolationism may not have been the best alternative.

    Now, why did you mention Israel? I fail to see the link with our discussion or with the thread.
    The thread title seems to have an ethnic cleansing ring to it, doesn't it?
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  10. #90
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    The thread title seems to have an ethnic cleansing ring to it, doesn't it?
    And?

    Proceed...

    Are you refering to the way Jews were genocided during WWII (by the Nazis and their allies) or ethnically cleansed after WWII (by the Communist and the Arab countries)?


    ---

    (Yet I fail to see a Genocide or something like an Ethnic cleansing in current-days Afghanistan)
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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